Allow Increase of Armour During Rebuilds

[konstantinosmegas]

In real life, the QEs, Nagatos and Hood were all slated for armour upgrades. Why can't we do this in rebuilds? In general, rebuilding ships is too constrained. Could we mod this out? 

[zederfflinger]

Oct 24, 2022 19:09:48 GMT -6 konstantinosmegas said:

In real life, the QEs, Nagatos and Hood were all slated for armour upgrades. Why can't we do this in rebuilds? In general, rebuilding ships is too constrained. Could we mod this out? 

This is something I'd really like to see. As you stated, rebuilds are too constricted as they currently stand. Being able to increase displacement would be another nice to have.

[dorn]

Practically all of these rebuids were not good investment by money cost.

Just relatively small refit of QEs before ww2 costs about one third of brand new KGV.

The more extensive refits as Italian or Japanese were probably costly almost as new ship.

So reasonable refits usually just add some armour there and there to cover most deficiencies and nothing more.

[konstantinosmegas]

Just because something isn't really meta, doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed in a roleplay/simulation game.

[zederfflinger]

Oct 26, 2022 12:11:46 GMT -6 dorn said:

Practically all of these rebuids were not good investment by money cost.

Just relatively small refit of QEs before ww2 costs about one third of brand new KGV.

The more extensive refits as Italian or Japanese were probably costly almost as new ship.

So reasonable refits usually just add some armour there and there to cover most deficiencies and nothing more.

I get the impression that the refits given to some of the QE's could be considered large, but regardless, most major refits are not good value for money in a vacuum.

When you have treaties though, it's a whole different matter. If the treaty system is being expanded, refitting ships is going to be more important than it already is.

In any case, we really should be able to conduct proper refits/rebuilds, regardless of their practicality, because it was done historically in this timeframe.

[cwemyss]

There's also a question of time. If a refit takes 12 months, a new build takes 24 months, and you're staring across the Channel at a dictator who's just absorbed Austria and half of Czechoslovakia.....

[zederfflinger]

Oct 26, 2022 13:50:47 GMT -6 cwemyss said:

There's also a question of time. If a refit takes 12 months, a new build takes 24 months, and you're staring across the Channel at a dictator who's just absorbed Austria and half of Czechoslovakia.....

Quite true!

I believe that many of the major interwar rebuilds did take quite a bit longer than 12 months, maybe even up to 2 or 3 years. That may have been to provide a steady flow of work for the shipyards rather than max building speed, I'm not sure.

[wlbjork]

There was also the issue of the LNT/WNT 'Battleship Holiday', which meant a lot of the key skills had been lost due to lack of use.

Refits are a way to redevelop/maintain a small proportion of those skills.

[zederfflinger]

I would have thought that we would know if major refits would be possible in RTW 3 five months down the road, but alas...

[asdfzxc922]

Rebuilds in RTW2 all have the field "BAChanged=0" right next to extra deck armor and bulges, so presumably belt armor upgrades were a planned feature for RTW2 at some point.

[zederfflinger]

Mar 25, 2023 19:38:07 GMT -6 asdfzxc922 said:

Rebuilds in RTW2 all have the field "BAChanged=0" right next to extra deck armor and bulges, so presumably belt armor upgrades were a planned feature for RTW2 at some point.

Huh, interesting.

[fronstermog]

Oct 26, 2022 12:11:46 GMT -6 dorn said:

Practically all of these rebuids were not good investment by money cost.

Just relatively small refit of QEs before ww2 costs about one third of brand new KGV.

The more extensive refits as Italian or Japanese were probably costly almost as new ship.

So reasonable refits usually just add some armour there and there to cover most deficiencies and nothing more.

Everything else aside, this is sort of the point. Adding armor wasn't uncommon or, relative to many items, complex. If the game allows for chopping out machinery and changing gun caliber then it certainly isn't too complex to add belt or deck armor.


As for the refits, it really depends. The Italian rebuilds are certainly questionable, but there are rational reasons, both in game and in real life, for deep refits.

If it's just something that would take too much time and work to add them I get it. Not allowing it because y'all think it's illogical isn't my favorite.