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Post by blarglol on Oct 26, 2022 12:48:32 GMT -6
Simple question:
1. Open a ship design, any ship. Look at it's Hull and Machinery weights respectively.
2. Close the window
3. Open the same vessel's refit window
4. Observe that the Hull and Machinery weights both (along with accomodations sometimes) have increased in weight for no reason, putting you in or much closer to the red, despite nothing being altered in the design yet
Is there a reason for this? It can be hundreds of tons on some vessels, and this affects what refits can be done. Is it a bug? Is it meant to model extra reinforcements to doing post-build alteration?
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Post by wlbjork on Oct 26, 2022 13:22:19 GMT -6
Let's hypothesise a game started in 1900, where you have opted to build a manual legacy fleet.
You design a battleship of 16,000t and build it in 1899.
About 1904 you develop the new Fire Control tech, Central Firing and decide to refit your old ships with it. When you finish you have a nominal 50t remaining.
You also decide to order some more ships of the same design but equipped with the new Central Firing system, so open the design of the modified ship - and find you have quite a bit more than 50t remaining on these ships. Why?
By 1904, depending exactly how the RNG has worked in your favour, you should have the following techs:
Improved Surface Condenser, Cockburn Safety Valves, Side Drums and Preheaters each apply a 1% reduction in machinery weight.
Improved Riveting Techniques, High Tensile Steel and Basic Weight Control, each of which apply a 1% weight reduction to the hull.
A little bit of luck and you could also have Steam Turbines and Testing Tank for Hull Form which have a major effect on power/weight ratios.
On top of this, there also appears to be a hidden, annual weight reduction.
So, it's not a bug, it's quite simply new technologies that cannot be applied to old construction.
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Post by zederfflinger on Oct 26, 2022 13:38:57 GMT -6
Not quite what your asking here, but I've noticed that ships do seem to gain weight in between refits, but I think that was a bug with one of the later releases of RTW 2.
I might be wrong though, it was a while ago and I don't quite remember what the issue was diagnosed as.
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Post by blarglol on Oct 26, 2022 13:48:49 GMT -6
Not quite what your asking hear, but I've noticed that ships do seem to gain weight in between refits, but I think that was a bug with one of the later releases of RTW 2. I might be wrong though, it was a while ago and I don't quite remember what the issue was diagnosed as.
So if I build a ship, and go to refit it, I notice that without changing anything, touching any of the settings yet, the ship already appears heavier. Specifically, these increases can be noticed as higher Hull weight and Machinery weight. You can see that the numbers are higher when you "Open design for rebuild," vs. just "Open design."
With nothing changed yet, the weights should be equal.
wlbjork but nothing is changed yet. I have not yet selected Central Firing or anything. Why is it listed at 16,000 tons when I "Open design," but 16,327 tons" when I "Open design for rebuild"? I haven't touched a single setting yet. |
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Post by wlbjork on Oct 26, 2022 22:54:33 GMT -6
New technology. It takes 2-4 years to build a battleship in game, which - at least early game - is enough for several weight reduction technologies to be researched, plus there seems to be a gradual weight reduction effect as the game progresses. Weight reduction technologies do not get applied at refit, though you can replace the engines which will then apply any advances in machinery to your engines and free up weight. My current game is 1902, and my Budapest-class Battleship is my heavy hitter:  That's the refit screen. If I want to build a new one and open the design screen I get:  I have 2 technologies reducing my hull weight by 1% apiece, saving 46 tons per technology. I also have 2 technologies reducing my machinery weight by 1% each which saves 13 tons per technology. Having said that, the savings I have are *much* higher than would be indicated. There is roughly another 120 tonnes of weight reduction applied - which is actually a lot higher than I was expecting. This seems to be some sort of undocumented annual weight reduction, because if you play a game to 1969, design a warship, reset the date to 1900 and open the design again you'll find it significantly overweight. |
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Post by dorn on Oct 27, 2022 10:59:55 GMT -6
It is because the brand new ship (epening design) uses newer lighter technologies compared the old one you want refit (open for refit).
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Post by blarglol on Oct 27, 2022 15:03:27 GMT -6
Ah, I see. I thought opening design showed the actual...current weight of the ship, when in actuality it is showing what a *new* ship of that design would weigh, which taking into account new tech, will be less than a current one refit. I thought opening up the design from right clicking a ship showed me the current weight of that one vessel one, rather any planned further members of the class...
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Post by dorn on Oct 29, 2022 11:36:43 GMT -6
Ah, I see. I thought opening design showed the actual...current weight of the ship, when in actuality it is showing what a *new* ship of that design would weigh, which taking into account new tech, will be less than a current one refit. I thought opening up the design from right clicking a ship showed me the current weight of that one vessel one, rather any planned further members of the class... It is done like that as you can use some old design as base for the new one and get discount on design development. The the best way to see your design at time of design is make a screenshot at that time or open design for refit but this way you cannot see the detail split of armour as game stores only the how thick armour is and total weight of armour, so it does not recalculate armour at the time of the design as game does not have all information to do it.
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Post by blarglol on Oct 29, 2022 13:32:57 GMT -6
Ah, I see. I thought opening design showed the actual...current weight of the ship, when in actuality it is showing what a *new* ship of that design would weigh, which taking into account new tech, will be less than a current one refit. I thought opening up the design from right clicking a ship showed me the current weight of that one vessel one, rather any planned further members of the class... It is done like that as you can use some old design as base for the new one and get discount on design development. The the best way to see your design at time of design is make a screenshot at that time or open design for refit but this way you cannot see the detail split of armour as game stores only the how thick armour is and total weight of armour, so it does not recalculate armour at the time of the design as game does not have all information to do it.
Huh, thanks for the info. I will have to take snapshots of my initial designs then. |
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ck07
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by ck07 on Nov 6, 2022 12:40:08 GMT -6
It is done like that as you can use some old design as base for the new one and get discount on design development. The the best way to see your design at time of design is make a screenshot at that time or open design for refit but this way you cannot see the detail split of armour as game stores only the how thick armour is and total weight of armour, so it does not recalculate armour at the time of the design as game does not have all information to do it.
Huh, thanks for the info. I will have to take snapshots of my initial designs then. I observe this too. I design and build ship which has spare tonnage when built, time passes, and then when I go to refit it it is now overweight. Since the ship has not changed at all since it was built, this cannot be explained by tech improvements that may or may not be incorporated in other ships--or by anything I can imagine. Does seem like a bug. |
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Post by dorn on Nov 6, 2022 13:32:45 GMT -6
Huh, thanks for the info. I will have to take snapshots of my initial designs then. I observe this too. I design and build ship which has spare tonnage when built, time passes, and then when I go to refit it it is now overweight. Since the ship has not changed at all since it was built, this cannot be explained by tech improvements that may or may not be incorporated in other ships--or by anything I can imagine. Does seem like a bug. It can happen, eg. after same date (about 1950, not certain right now), it is considered that crew quarters needs more space, so they are more heavy as increase of living condition of the crew. So if you refit a ship, it is considered that you increase living condition of the crew for some costs of weight. |
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ck07
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by ck07 on Nov 6, 2022 19:54:47 GMT -6
I observe this too. I design and build ship which has spare tonnage when built, time passes, and then when I go to refit it it is now overweight. Since the ship has not changed at all since it was built, this cannot be explained by tech improvements that may or may not be incorporated in other ships--or by anything I can imagine. Does seem like a bug. It can happen, eg. after same date (about 1950, not certain right now), it is considered that crew quarters needs more space, so they are more heavy as increase of living condition of the crew. So if you refit a ship, it is considered that you increase living condition of the crew for some costs of weight. I observe this in the 1910s, maybe late 1900s. |
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