The 100kt (90kt) barrier

[pratapon51]

Will we be able to break 90kt in RTW3?

[zederfflinger]

Possibly, however, I'd rather have the ability to achieve speeds greater than 34 knots with anything other than a destroyer. Super battleships are really not a good investment, and while you may want to build one occasionally, fast ships are something that you should be building much more frequently. 

[pratapon51]

That'd be cool, too, though I had supercarriers more in mind, since by the 1970s we'd be approaching the 100kt mark with USS Enterprise (already over the 90kt limit) and not long after that, the Nimitz-class.

[oldpop2000]

You are going to need at least 260,000 to 320,000 shaft horsepower to drive a 100,000 ton aircraft carrier at 33 knots. The Forrestal's had 260,000 for just about 82,000 tons fully loaded. It just isn't reasonable unless you have nuclear power.

[oldpop2000]

Example of a carrier similar to the second Essex batch which were at 34,000 tons with 150,000 SHP. This ship is 60,000 at full load, It has a power rating of 241,000 SHP. Now Springsharp is not always accurate on power but you get the idea about the rise in weight and SHP.


Bonnie Richard, USA Aircraft Carrier laid down 1950

Displacement:
45,043 t light; 46,168 t standard; 54,039 t normal; 60,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(897.57 ft / 888.00 ft) x 160.00 ft x (32.00 / 34.49 ft)
(273.58 m / 270.66 m) x 48.77 m x (9.75 / 10.51 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1950 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1950 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 239 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 577.20 ft / 175.93 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 310.78 ft / 94.73 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm - 0.50" / 13 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 241,271 shp / 179,988 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 14,168 tons

Complement:
1,771 - 2,303

Cost:
£19.030 million / $76.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 121 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 121 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 4,195 tons, 7.8 %
- Belts: 1,503 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,471 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Towers: 185 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 5,772 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,955 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,996 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15,000 tons, 27.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 15,000 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
223,391 lbs / 101,329 Kg = 3,574.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 16.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 16.6 ft / 5.0 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.416 / 0.431
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Average freeboard: 35.70 ft / 10.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 339.2 %
Waterplane Area: 88,336 Square feet or 8,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Aircraft - 122Bonnie Richard, USA Aircraft Carrier laid down 1950

Displacement:
45,043 t light; 46,168 t standard; 54,039 t normal; 60,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(897.57 ft / 888.00 ft) x 160.00 ft x (32.00 / 34.49 ft)
(273.58 m / 270.66 m) x 48.77 m x (9.75 / 10.51 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1950 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1950 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 239 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 577.20 ft / 175.93 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 310.78 ft / 94.73 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm - 0.50" / 13 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 241,271 shp / 179,988 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 14,168 tons

Complement:
1,771 - 2,303

Cost:
£19.030 million / $76.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 121 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 121 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 4,195 tons, 7.8 %
- Belts: 1,503 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,471 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Towers: 185 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 5,772 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,955 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,996 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15,000 tons, 27.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 15,000 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
223,391 lbs / 101,329 Kg = 3,574.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 16.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 16.6 ft / 5.0 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.416 / 0.431
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Average freeboard: 35.70 ft / 10.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 339.2 %
Waterplane Area: 88,336 Square feet or 8,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Aircraft - 122Bonnie Richard, USA Aircraft Carrier laid down 1950

Displacement:
45,043 t light; 46,168 t standard; 54,039 t normal; 60,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(897.57 ft / 888.00 ft) x 160.00 ft x (32.00 / 34.49 ft)
(273.58 m / 270.66 m) x 48.77 m x (9.75 / 10.51 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1950 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1950 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 239 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 577.20 ft / 175.93 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 310.78 ft / 94.73 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm - 0.50" / 13 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 241,271 shp / 179,988 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 14,168 tons

Complement:
1,771 - 2,303

Cost:
£19.030 million / $76.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 121 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 121 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 4,195 tons, 7.8 %
- Belts: 1,503 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,471 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Towers: 185 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 5,772 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,955 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,996 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15,000 tons, 27.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 15,000 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
223,391 lbs / 101,329 Kg = 3,574.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 16.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 16.6 ft / 5.0 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.416 / 0.431
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Average freeboard: 35.70 ft / 10.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 339.2 %
Waterplane Area: 88,336 Square feet or 8,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Aircraft - 122Bonnie Richard, USA Aircraft Carrier laid down 1950

Displacement:
45,043 t light; 46,168 t standard; 54,039 t normal; 60,336 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(897.57 ft / 888.00 ft) x 160.00 ft x (32.00 / 34.49 ft)
(273.58 m / 270.66 m) x 48.77 m x (9.75 / 10.51 m)

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1950 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.97lbs / 0.89kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1950 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 528 lbs / 239 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 577.20 ft / 175.93 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 310.78 ft / 94.73 m 15.18 ft / 4.63 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm - 0.50" / 13 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 241,271 shp / 179,988 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 14,168 tons

Complement:
1,771 - 2,303

Cost:
£19.030 million / $76.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 121 tons, 0.2 %
- Guns: 121 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 4,195 tons, 7.8 %
- Belts: 1,503 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 2,471 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Towers: 185 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 5,772 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,955 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,996 tons, 16.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15,000 tons, 27.8 %
- On freeboard deck: 15,000 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
223,391 lbs / 101,329 Kg = 3,574.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 16.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
Metacentric height 16.6 ft / 5.0 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 98 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.416 / 0.431
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.55 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m, 35.70 ft / 10.88 m
- Average freeboard: 35.70 ft / 10.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 339.2 %
Waterplane Area: 88,336 Square feet or 8,207 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.79
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Aircraft - 122

[oldpop2000]

If you examine the tonnage and SHP of the USS Kitty Hawk, full load is about 80,000 ton with a Shaft Horsepower of 280,000. The game must take this into account.

[tbr]

Dec 21, 2022 16:31:57 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

If you examine the tonnage and SHP of the USS Kitty Hawk, full load is about 80,000 ton with a Shaft Horsepower of 280,000. The game must take this into account.

I always considererd RTW tonnage to be standard displacement. But Kitty Hawk is a good argument for allowing 64kton carriers in the 1960's.

[oldpop2000]

Dec 24, 2022 16:02:23 GMT -6 tbr said:

Dec 21, 2022 16:31:57 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

If you examine the tonnage and SHP of the USS Kitty Hawk, full load is about 80,000 ton with a Shaft Horsepower of 280,000. The game must take this into account.

I always considererd RTW tonnage to be standard displacement. But Kitty Hawk is a good argument for allowing 64kton carriers in the 1960's.

As time progresses, ships are overhauled and updated. This increases their tonnage. Midway was about 45,000 tons when launched but over 61,000 tons when retired. The game must allow this increase.

[zederfflinger]

Dec 24, 2022 16:59:26 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Dec 24, 2022 16:02:23 GMT -6 tbr said:

I always considererd RTW tonnage to be standard displacement. But Kitty Hawk is a good argument for allowing 64kton carriers in the 1960's.

As time progresses, ships are overhauled and updated. This increases their tonnage. Midway was about 45,000 tons when launched but over 61,000 tons when retired. The game must allow this increase.

Being able to increase the tonnage of the ships in major refits would be a very good thing to see. I don't really think that the tonnage is standard, as the capabilities you get on a certain tonnage in game line up with full load more than standard.

[oldpop2000]

Dec 24, 2022 17:22:53 GMT -6 zederfflinger said:

Dec 24, 2022 16:59:26 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

As time progresses, ships are overhauled and updated. This increases their tonnage. Midway was about 45,000 tons when launched but over 61,000 tons when retired. The game must allow this increase.

Being able to increase the tonnage of the ships in major refits would be a very good thing to see. I don't really think that the tonnage is standard, as the capabilities you get on a certain tonnage in game line up with full load more than standard.

Almost all refits or upgrades add tonnage, so the game must recognize this.

[benjamin1992perry]

true it recognizes it but at the same time, far as I have found it only increases the displacement up to the max design displacement unless you do bulged sides which only adds 500 tons and losses 2knots of speed.

[sleventyfive]

Dec 24, 2022 19:15:26 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Dec 24, 2022 17:22:53 GMT -6 zederfflinger said:

Being able to increase the tonnage of the ships in major refits would be a very good thing to see. I don't really think that the tonnage is standard, as the capabilities you get on a certain tonnage in game line up with full load more than standard.

Almost all refits or upgrades add tonnage, so the game must recognize this.

The way I viewed it is that the 'hull size'-tonnage=reserve buoyancy, so a 50000t ship with 5000t 'left over' actually displaces 45000t with 5000t reserve buoyancy. Refits add tonnage, but there's a limit to how much you can pile onto a ship. The Essexes went from ~37000t to ~47000t so there definitely were increases that aren't modeled right now, though the refits to Midway, as you mentioned, were so expensive and caused so many seakeeping issues that they weren't done to the other two Midways, so it might not be the best example.

[nagat0]

To be honest,i don't really care about realism in this case.I just want to build 500.000 tons battleships.I'm really curious if messing around with the files in order to allow this is possible.

[buttons]

Jun 25, 2023 7:40:48 GMT -6 nagat0 said:

To be honest,i don't really care about realism in this case.I just want to build 500.000 tons battleships.I'm really curious if messing around with the files in order to allow this is possible.

Based