|
|
Post by yemo on May 27, 2023 12:13:55 GMT -6
I just had a coast bombardment mission with fleet size. My only forces: 15 KE(minesweepers) + 3 DDs from my Ally Enemy forces: Several battleships, armored cruisers, protected cruisers, light cruisers and destroyers Corvettes do not belong in auto generated missions as player controlled forces, beyond 1v1 battles (eg when the corvette is on foreign stations and is hunted down by another ship). This is a game breaking bug.The player must have minesweeping corvettes on "active fleet", so that they protect the active fleet from mines. But having those KE on "active fleet" leads to battles like above, while the rest of the active fleet is relaxing on shore... This is now the 5th time that my KE minesweepers were the core force, though the first time against such odds. There is also a discussion in the suggestions thread: nws-online.proboards.com/thread/6858/new-status-auxilliary-save-minesweepers |
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on May 27, 2023 13:25:34 GMT -6
I just had a coast bombardment mission with fleet size. My only forces: 15 KE(minesweepers) + 3 DDs from my Ally Enemy forces: Several battleships, armored cruisers, protected cruisers, light cruisers and destroyers Corvettes do not belong in auto generated missions as player controlled forces, beyond 1v1 battles (eg when the corvette is on foreign stations and is hunted down by another ship). This is a game breaking bug.The player must have minesweeping corvettes on "active fleet", so that they protect the active fleet from mines. But having those KE on "active fleet" leads to battles like above, while the rest of the active fleet is relaxing on shore... This is now the 5th time that my KE minesweepers were the core force, though the first time against such odds. There is also a discussion in the suggestions thread: nws-online.proboards.com/thread/6858/new-status-auxilliary-save-minesweepersThere is no need to have minesweeping corvettes on active to protect against mines. They just have to be in the area. TP is usually the best, to keep them out of battles. |
|
|
|
Post by blarglol on May 27, 2023 13:50:06 GMT -6
I just had a coast bombardment mission with fleet size. My only forces: 15 KE(minesweepers) + 3 DDs from my Ally Enemy forces: Several battleships, armored cruisers, protected cruisers, light cruisers and destroyers Corvettes do not belong in auto generated missions as player controlled forces, beyond 1v1 battles (eg when the corvette is on foreign stations and is hunted down by another ship). This is a game breaking bug.The player must have minesweeping corvettes on "active fleet", so that they protect the active fleet from mines. But having those KE on "active fleet" leads to battles like above, while the rest of the active fleet is relaxing on shore... This is now the 5th time that my KE minesweepers were the core force, though the first time against such odds. There is also a discussion in the suggestions thread: nws-online.proboards.com/thread/6858/new-status-auxilliary-save-minesweepersThere is no need to have minesweeping corvettes on active to protect against mines. They just have to be in the area. TP is usually the best, to keep them out of battles. That's interesting to know, because when I think of TP, I think ships that actively escort convoys (DDs) or actively counter raiders (CLs and CAs). Sometimes (especially earlier decades), I make escort KE gunboats with a little armor and multiple 2,3,4, or 5" guns to counter DDs swarming convoys.
When I think minesweeping KEs, I think of a small tonnage vessel (600-800 tons) with one main gun of 3 or 4 inches, and that's it. No armor, no secondaries, just minesweeping gear. I wouldn't want these escorting convoys as they would next to no chance against anything coming after them.
What is odd that we never seemed to have these issues in RTW2, so something was altered from 2 to 3 to make minesweeping KEs start taking a much more visible role in active engagements, whether WAD and intended or not....
|
|
|
|
Post by dia on May 27, 2023 14:38:58 GMT -6
What is odd that we never seemed to have these issues in RTW2, so something was altered from 2 to 3 to make minesweeping KEs start taking a much more visible role in active engagements, whether WAD and intended or not....
That's probably because they added missile corvettes to the late game so there is now a need for the battle generator to bring KE's into engagements. The unintended consequence seems to be that KE's are being brought into battles before missile corvettes become a thing. I'm thinking there should be a clear announcement that KE's don't need to be on active fleet with the exception of foreign station colonial gunboats and missile corvettes because in RtW2 it was mine and many other's understanding that you did need KE minesweepers on active duty.
I myself used to keep insanely cheap 200 ton KEs on active to act as torpedo/mine sponges for my fleet in RtW2 but the changes to ASW and minesweeping have seemed to resolve the need for that (from what I can tell so far.)
|
|
|
|
Post by yemo on May 27, 2023 14:42:39 GMT -6
The player must have minesweeping corvettes on "active fleet", so that they protect the active fleet from mines. But having those KE on "active fleet" leads to battles like above, while the rest of the active fleet is relaxing on shore... There is no need to have minesweeping corvettes on active to protect against mines. They just have to be in the area. TP is usually the best, to keep them out of battles. Ah, good to know. That would solve my minesweeper corvette issue. I only put them in AF mode, because I read somewhere that there is a protection distinction between AF and TP.
Perhaps that was only related to anti submarine warfare?
That AF ASW protects your fleet from subs, while TP ASW protects your trade from subs?
Is that true?Oh, in case you bugfix this KE as core, for others making my mistake: Perhaps my "only KE core" issue was increased, due to my reaction to previously seeing KE as part of the core force. After the first KE core occurance, I made my KE(ms) considerably faster, so that they could at least scatter and run away when thrown into battle. Thus I now run exclusively 22 & 24 knot KE(ms), while there are still very few "non-DD" ships around in the world that run faster (1906 no tech variation, standard research speed). That might entice the battle generator to give them even more importance? |
|
|
|
Post by stevethecat on May 27, 2023 15:37:11 GMT -6
Corvettes do not belong in auto generated missions as player controlled forces,
We have been experimenting with 'battle corvettes', active fleets of heavy KE's well armed with many 4/5" guns and enough armour to resist 4".
And as active fleet they demolish enemy DD's in light fleet battles. So I would like to keep them there thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by yemo on May 27, 2023 16:01:37 GMT -6
Corvettes do not belong in auto generated missions as player controlled forces,
We have been experimenting with 'battle corvettes', active fleets of heavy KE's well armed with many 4/5" guns and enough armour to resist 4".
And as active fleet they demolish enemy DD's in light fleet battles. So I would like to keep them there thanks. Agreed, I should have been more precise. I support the suggestions by brygun to offer the player a new AUX (or UX) role to choose, complementing the AF and TP roles: nws-online.proboards.com/thread/6858/new-status-auxilliary-save-minesweepers |
|
|
|
Post by asdfzxc922 on May 27, 2023 22:33:31 GMT -6
"Corvettes" in RTW3 now include monitors with 10" guns and almost battleship-grade armor, so it makes a certain amount of sense for them to appear alongside battleships. That being said, there does need to be a clearer distinction between monitors, 5" gunboats and actual corvettes/minesweepers.
|
|
|
|
Post by blarglol on May 27, 2023 23:31:50 GMT -6
"Corvettes" in RTW3 now include monitors with 10" guns and almost battleship-grade armor, so it makes a certain amount of sense for them to appear alongside battleships. That being said, there does need to be a clearer distinction between monitors, 5" gunboats and actual corvettes/minesweepers. I've been saying this for ages. Bring on the separate monitors as MO, minesweepers as MS, etc. And bring playable dedicated MINELAYERS as ML. But....the problem is as always, what is nice and logical for us is a pain-in-the-ass for Fredrik to code so that the AI can properly utilize them as we would. Basically - using KE as a catch-all is easier to have the AI utilize versus the myriad of ships that the term now encompasses.
I guess it could be argued at this point with RTW3 that further categories are finally (some would say belatedly) needed, but that remains to be seen and would take precedence after all current bugs are fixed. The last thing any dev wants to do is introduce new things on top of bugs.
|
|
|
|
Post by epsilon19 on May 28, 2023 5:31:59 GMT -6
What is odd that we never seemed to have these issues in RTW2, so something was altered from 2 to 3 to make minesweeping KEs start taking a much more visible role in active engagements, whether WAD and intended or not....
That's probably because they added missile corvettes to the late game so there is now a need for the battle generator to bring KE's into engagements. The unintended consequence seems to be that KE's are being brought into battles before missile corvettes become a thing. I'm thinking there should be a clear announcement that KE's don't need to be on active fleet with the exception of foreign station colonial gunboats and missile corvettes because in RtW2 it was mine and many other's understanding that you did need KE minesweepers on active duty.
I myself used to keep insanely cheap 200 ton KEs on active to act as torpedo/mine sponges for my fleet in RtW2 but the changes to ASW and minesweeping have seemed to resolve the need for that (from what I can tell so far.)
Also, prior to DDs being developed, KEs take on the role of screening ships for about a decade while DDs are either completely non-existent or so small as to only be pure torpedo boats with a 2 or 3 inch gun. Once DDs of greater than 500 tons or so come out, KEs as fleet combat ships really fall off in usefulness until missiles. |
|
