Seaplane Carriers and Helicopters

[tendravina]

I am wondering if you guys have ever used a seaplane carrier in one of your games, and whether they are useful or not; I'm not sure, but they don't seem all that useful to you after unlocking carriers. 

I was also surprised to learn that helicopter carriers and other helicopter-carrying ships have no blockade value. However, helicopters, as they can board merchant vessels, are practically synonymous with blockade enforcement nowadays, so it seems strange that they don't have an effect on blockade value in Rule The Waves 3. In addition, helicopters allow ships to search much wider areas, which is why they get ASW value. Maybe if helicopters did get blockade value, helicopter carriers would be used much more often, while also buffing other smaller vessels.

Also add blockade value to seaplane carriers, maybe

[director]

I will build a seaplane carrier or two, on the off-chance I can use it before carriers unlock and can be built. My favorite floatplane design is a CA with 9x8" in an all-forward mounting, carrying 5 or 6 floatplanes (with catapults) aft. They are useful for scouting and make good escorts for carriers. Later, you can cut the hangar off and mount a respectable AA missile armament.

[TheOtherPoster]

Beta version 1.00.32 has made possible for floatplanes to carry torpedoes, which is a welcome addition as now AVs could in theory be used on offensive operations. I don't know how well that works as I don't download beta versions myself.
Nevertheless there are still two main drawbacks to use AVs:

1. We cannot include seaplane carriers in any division, so we cannot assign them, for example, as scouting for our reserve battle force, while keeping the carriers for our main battle force. Instead, it all depends on what the AI thinks our AVs are for.

2. We do not control floatplanes the same way we control planes from our carriers. So any offensive action in battle is totally left to the AI, that decides if, what and when to launch its floatplanes.

[tendravina]

So from what I'm gathering, if I am correct, I still don't think that actual AVs are really worth it in any role. They are simultaneously worse ASW ships, worse cruisers, and worse airplane ships, and not even really a jack-of-all-trades ship since they don't do any of these roles remotely well.

I feel like this is a problem, considering actual nations tended to build a lot of seaplane and helicopter carriers.

[jwsmith26]

Jan 18, 2024 10:52:32 GMT -6 TheOtherPoster said:

Beta version 1.00.32 has made possible for floatplanes to carry torpedoes, which is a welcome addition as now AVs could in theory be used on offensive operations. I don't know how well that works as I don't download beta versions myself.
Nevertheless there are still two main drawbacks to use AVs:

1. We cannot include seaplane carriers in any division, so we cannot assign them, for example, as scouting for our reserve battle force, while keeping the carriers for our main battle force. Instead, it all depends on what the AI thinks our AVs are for.

2. We do not control floatplanes the same way we control planes from our carriers. So any offensive action in battle is totally left to the AI, that decides if, what and when to launch its floatplanes.

I believe you have not accurately described how the game handles seaplane strikes in point 2.

- A floatplane squadron on an AV can be assigned the specific types of weapons that they carry for a strike mission.
- The squadron can be assigned a type of mission to fly.
- The number of floatplanes assigned to the strike can be set by the player.
- You can set a priority target for the strike.
- You can set the target location or targeted enemy TF in exactly the same manner as is used for planes aboard aircraft carriers.

In other words, when it comes to using floatplanes on a seaplane carrier in a strike role, a floatplane squadron is treated almost exactly the same as a squadron on an aircraft carrier. The same interface is used for launching strikes from seaplane carriers and aircraft carriers.

The primary limitation with AVs is that they are not reliably assigned to combat. It is quite possible for a seaplane carrier to see no action over a 20-year lifespan. And the issues you mention mentioned in point 1 are quite valid concerns.

[TheOtherPoster]

Hi jwsmith26
Yes, you're of course right. I think i've been over zelous on my second point (i.e. damn wrong).  I guess it's all down to my poor use of AVs. In the past I didn't find them very eficient as a strike force so I tend to use them only for scouting. But things may well be more interesting now as they can carry not only small bombs but even torpedoes! 

Obviously against a full CV they do not have much to do, but we can think of some scenarios where they could still be useful as an offensive weapon, like a first step before we can develop carriers, and after that we could assign them to more remote areas where the enemy may not have a powerful land and no carrier based aviation, SE Asia in a war betwen Britain and France, for example...

Because of the game mechanics, more tricky would be to use AVs as raiders, as the battle scenarios tend to start with us not too far from the enemy, and a cruiser, thanks to its superior speed, can quickly get us within range of its guns.

[brygun]

Bit late but one thing I have found AV to be good at is cheap raiders. AVR - Aviation Raiders, with 3 floatplanes don't need the weight for armor. So they can be produced smaller than a CL thus cheaper hull and engines. A 27 knot 3 plane design on 2,700 tons is very cost efficient. Mostly it survives by running away!

Which is also saying not really working as they did in real life.

We do need the AV type in the division system and attachable in battle with "independent" cruise type options. They don't need to be anywhere near the gun line when planes and helicopters have 100+ km range.


Also agree that blockade value should be thing. Plane count scaling it like with ASW where diminishing returns is a thing but effecient around 6? 12? plane/helis. 

Thinking of the Falklands War they soooo wished they had more helicopters and didnt waste some on the SAS special guys thinking flying to a glacier in a blizzard was a good idea.

[brygun]

Oh...

Why you might not think of having control of the floatplanes is the auto-search took them off your ship. At start of battle, turn 0, turn off the auto search. You will need to plot them manually if you want to search.

[benjamin1992perry]

What would be nice is to be able to designate either a percentage used for scouting or only your scouting force's aircraft being used for search.