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Post by spitfire97 on Feb 6, 2024 15:23:46 GMT -6
Figured I'd bunch them together rather than make separate threads back-to-back, since they are all pretty simple questions
1) Advancements in fleet tactics often change the way your fleet deploys (parallel cruising, scout force etc). In the early carrier years, often the battle generator likes to assign a carrier in support of the main carrier division, but does this change with the "carrier battle group concept" advancement?
I'd like to rebuild my early carriers to jet capable standard and assign them in the support role to carry light jet fighters as CAP, but the description of the advancement specifically mentions "single supercarrier". This makes it sound like even if assigned to support, the battle generator won't utilise my CAP carriers in the way I intend. Can anyone enlighten me?
2) What AA categories shoot at missiles?
The manual specifically states medium and light AA will, once you unlock radar directed MAA and CIWS respectively. What about heavy AA? The missile technology "Improved light SAM" mentions providing anti-missile defence to nearby ships, am I to assume that light SAM defends it's own ship from missiles before this? Or is it like medium SAM where you have to get the "improved" advancement before anti-missile capability is included? Will heavy SAM ever shoot at missiles?
3) Do you put level 5 radar on DDs?
With the AI shoehorning 6in guns on their DDs I'm finding it difficult getting the displacement for all the equipment I need on my DDs while also equipping a decent gun armament. Given level 5 radar only improves search radar and not fire control, is it worth it on smaller ships?
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Post by cheatereater on Feb 7, 2024 1:25:51 GMT -6
I'll try to answer your questions with what I know from my games so far:
1. I recently got the carrier battle group tech, and haven't noticed any real change in the setup of my carriers, but that may be because I have multiple carriers in battles normally. I've always wanted to be able to do what you suggest, but getting the right carrier in the right division in the right battle is very finicky. But if you do have a carrier as support, the CAP seems to work fine, even with the tech.
2. Not sure about LSAM as I don't have it yet, I have MAA(R) shooting down missiles in my game. I don't think HAA can ever shoot at missiles.
3. The 6" gun DDs suck to fight with your DDs, and I think they may be a little too powerful in that role, but they're disadvantaged because they have to be big, the 6" guns can't be DP and they take up a lot of space that could go to missiles. That said, in any frontline ship I always go for the highest possible radar level. Oftentimes you'll have scenarios with only your smaller ships available, or your cruisers might be busy doing something else, or you might need to spread out to find that convoy. The advantages of long-range radar are too big to pass up for any ship. As missiles improve, the 6" gun becomes less important anyway.
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Post by director on Feb 11, 2024 13:19:34 GMT -6
1) The AI likes to give you a lot of formations strung out over a wide area. Once I actually get control of my ships, I like to consolidate. If I inherit a carrier supporting a carrier group I change the order to line ahead. EXPOSED FORMATIONS ARE EASY TARGETS.
2) I don't think HAA shoots at missiles - too slow a rate of fire to be effective.
3) MY favorite DD design is 8x4" DP in four twin turrets. I always use the best ASW equipment - that's top priority, and includes a helo deck even if I can't squeeze in a helo. Once DDs get bigger and missiles are a thing, I'll drop one or two 4" turrets for an AA missile launcher, but no compromise on ASW. I use cruisers for AA platforms, DDs for ASW protection. My favorite cruiser has 3 triple turrets all-forward with aircraft hangar aft. In the missile age, the hangar is replaced by missile launchers.
I do not ever, ever, ever go to a 6" gun on a DD. It probably can't be DP and, frankly, since DDs are unarmored a 4" or 5" will make just as nice a hole as a 6" - and more of them. No nation ever had good luck with a 6" on a DD.
Moving into the modern era, capital ships are replaced by carriers and cruisers, cruisers are replaced by DDs. So, if you would fit max radar on a cruiser in WW2 era, do the same for your DDs in the modern era.
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Post by dorn on Feb 12, 2024 8:40:17 GMT -6
I have already experienced with 6" guns od large DD in past. I would say they have very dubious effectiveness. There are certainly examples that make them interesting additions in battle with light forces (CLs) included but otherwise 4" or 5" guns are just much better for such small patform as DD is.
Overall your DD is your main platform for ASW in the fleet so any compromises on ASW is very dangerous. Than you need boost your AA capabilities from 30s and have a decent firepower against another DDs for which 4" or 5" excels. Using 6" guns which are much larger than 5" guns means you need to sacrifies too much to a advantage only in certain situations. It is much better to invest a little more in CLs that put a 6" gun onto the DD. Destroyers can certainly support CLs but not having 6" guns. If you need more 6" guns against enemy CLs, build more CLs or more powerful CLs. ;-)
If you really need jack of all traders than probably it is the CL which can have reasonable good firepower, reasonable protection up to 5" guns and some protection against 6" guns, have good AA role, still fast and have powerful torpedo armament.
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Post by dorn on Feb 14, 2024 4:32:53 GMT -6
I will add one thing. These questions as should I put radar lvl 5 on DD, should I put 6" guns or DD or similar is a little misunderstanding how think works.
If you have such question it means you lack something when you battle your enemy otherwise such question is meaningless. If I take again question of 6" guns on DD, that it probably means that your problem is you are loosing battles with light forces (up to CL). If this is a case, your question should be, what I should do to win such battles. The first step would be question why am I loosing such battles. If the answer (as example) is that my opponents outshoot me that I should find the reasons for that.
Is it this because enemy has similar numbers of ships of DD and CL category and I am unable to compete? Or is it because my enemy has overwhelming number of DDs and CLs. If it is about numbers, the probably emergency contourmeasure will be laying down bunch of cheap destroyers (something Royal Navy did in WW2). If the war is already over, than it should be looked at long time view and build such destroyers and cruisers that will match enemy ones with some idea, how many of them needs to be build each year to have parity in the time needed.
If the reasons is that my cruisers and destroyers are not up to the task with enemy one, again you can think, if you need to quickly overcome this by building fast cheap ships or you have a time to build properly larger ships.
After all that questions are answered you can finally have idea what ships do you need, what capabilities they should be built with. If it is eg. that your forces are equally numerical, but individual ships are worse quality, you should decide if the numbers or quality of single ship need to be improved. If you luck firepower and decided that the quality of the ship needs to be improved (eg. you are loosing DD vs. DD) you still have several options: a) improve ship quality b) improve crew training
If you dedice going for quality and you need more firepower of the destroyer, you need to know your capabilities, eg. choosing main armament for destroyer and evaluate all possibilities, eg. a) 3x2x4" DP -> cheap adequate destroyer you have but you need better one b) 4x2x4" DP -> good AA, but ship loosing against enemy destroyers -> need to deploy 5" guns for destroyers c) 3x2x5" DP -> ideal compromise of AA, firepower, speed, costs and equality comparable to enemy ships d) 4x2x5" DP -> very large destroyer with excellent firepower but need to sacrifice speed or range or torpedo armament -> need to be decided what is more important e) 3x2x6" ->very large destroyer with superb firepower but sacrifces AA and antoher sacrifices of range or torpedo armament is nessesary -> is it worth the costs?
And by this decision process you will find the answer what your fleet needs. However your strategy should be in line with your possibilities and enemy. Thinking as Italy, you should have same number of DD and CL as Royal Navy in 10s is usually not the good overal strategy.
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Post by spitfire97 on Feb 14, 2024 19:45:14 GMT -6
I don't wish to sound ungrateful because I really appreciate your input all of you, but everyone assuming I'm talking about putting 6in guns on MY destroyers has completely misunderstood my question XD Nowhere did I mention this at all in my question, my question revolved around the AI equipping 6in guns.
I built all my destroyers with 4in guns and with new DD designs coming into service they're looking a little dated. They're end of life anyway and running out of spare displacement for additional ASW equipment. However I also built them at 35kts and I don't really wanna regress because the speed is useful for getting into torpedo firing positions. But to fit 5in DP guns and all the extra ASW equipment on a 35kt platform is pushing it on 3,000 tonnes. I could go down to 6x5in but frankly I'd rather have 8x4in for the extra HAA. I don't currently have search radar 5, it's still a few years out, and equipping radar 4 just about gives me the displacement I would need for the design I want, hence my question. Why people got the impression I was considering 6in guns I'm not really sure.
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