Excessive turret jams on capital ships?

[wlbjork]

It seems that Capital Ships suffer disproportionately from turret jams.

At the moment I have insufficient data to say this conclusively but in 4 battles:

The first, I only checked the Bs. The two newish (at the time) Bs suffered 17 jams between them plus my 2 older ships suffered 3 jams.

Since then, I've thoroughly checked 3 battles.

Battle #1: 25 ships total, nothing bigger than a CA, 3 jams between all ships

Battle #2: 19 ships total, nothing bigger than a CA, 7 jams between all ships

Battle #3: 17 ships total, 3 of which were Bs, 13 jams between all ships, but 9 on Bs, with 7 on a single B (this being an older ship).

Combat time also needs to be factored in, and I slipped a little on this. The battle where I only checked the Bs looks like about 4.5 hours of combat time, I didn't check #1 properly. However #2 was for 3.5 hours and #3 was for 1.5 hours.

Note that in the above scenarios, nothing mounted better than an 8" gun and the ships had crews of Quality 1 or better.


As I say, 4 battles isn't proof. It's no more than an indicator. However, I find it very strange that in 2 battles with Bs, 3 of them individually suffer as many jams or more than the whole fleet does in the 2 other battles where no Bs are present.

Edit: #4, 19 ships total, nothing bigger than a CA, 4 jams between all ships, 2.5 hours of combat

[brygun]

Well the armor surely contributes... after all if it explodes in a magazine detonation its not going to be jammed at all.

[wlbjork]

 Good one brygun.

Probably should have mentioned this is an 1890 start as Japan, though the war takes place in 1897, so designs have improved somewhat but still a propensity for the AI to mount insufficient guns on their combatants.

As a result, I lost a total of 2 DDs in the war against Russia (adding to the AMC I threw away against China). Usual battering of the AI, mind you - 7 BBs, 11 CAs, 6 CLs, 1 DD and 1 KE

[brygun]

heheheee

From what I recall of the damage modelling secondary batteries that are penetrated become destroyed. Don't think I've ever seen a jammed secondary.

The main guns have options on penetrating hits of magazine explosion, destroyed or jammed. So... in a way.. my joke hides that it is one of three penetrated states. The least of them.

[wlbjork]

Thing is, if it was from battle damage, I'd expect the CAs - where the Bs aren't present at least - to suffer more disabled turrets from battle damage.

As it is, I don't think any of these were disabled from battle damage - these are literally the ones that appear in the log as 'Turret A (or Y, I, J...etc) Jammed'.

Edit: Like these 3 (first time I noticed 3 on a CL this session) - marked with a blue X:


Edit 2: Ok, spoke too soon - another of the CLs in that battle suffered 8 jams in 4.5 hours of combat

Edit 3 Ah, but both CLs had Crew Quality 0, so i'd guess that would have an effect.

[wlbjork]

This is a bit more like what I'm referring to:

I've cross-checked against the ship logs, and these are *not* from battle damage, but mechanical or human errors which cause the turrets to become temporarily disabled (Fiji takes a 6" hit disabling a turret at 1215, which isn't listed, but the others are just 'pure chance' jams).

Of 19 jams, 14 - roughly 75% - of them were suffered by the Bs. The number of jams isn't really all that bad for a battle and a skirmish that lasted roughly 10 hours (don't you just love invasion battles? )

So, adding a bit further cross-checking:

Fuso is Crew Quality 0
Fiji and Asahi are Crew Quality 1
Shikishima is Crew Quality 2

However, this doesn't appear to have had a large impact on the number of jams suffered.

[brygun]

Interesting

Game is probably running a mechanical reliability on large turrets. There are things like turret speed technologies so there could be hidden reliability considerations around the same techs.

[wlbjork]

Knew there was something else to mention...the Bs are using 8" Q-1 main battery weapons, so it shouldn't be that.

There's 2 classes of B, almost identical other than the older class (Fuji and Asahi) mounting single guns in A and Y turrets whilst the newer class Fuso and Shikishima) mount double guns. The broadside mounts are in Casemates.

The double mounts could account for a decrease in reliability, hence Fuso suffering the most jams whilst Shikishima suffered the same as Fiji and Ashahi once the Crew Quality is accounted for - I don't know off-hand.

Obviously, still testing as I go along. I'm nowhere close enough to say there is an issue, only that there's what appears to be an unusual pattern.

[brygun]

Mar 21, 2024 12:02:45 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

Knew there was something else to mention...the Bs are using 8" Q-1 main battery weapons, so it shouldn't be that.

actually the ROF penalties are for less than 9" IIRC