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Post by aeson on Mar 12, 2019 21:33:45 GMT -6
Amiral Charner looks like it's supposed to be an armored cruiser but somehow wasn't fast enough to qualify. No idea what was going on with Regina Margerita, though. How many of them did you have to rebuild?
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Post by noshurviverse on Mar 12, 2019 21:57:43 GMT -6
As the next few years passed, Italy won a minor war with Austria, securing with it some minor concessions and territory along the border. Only a year or so had passed when a series of arguments erupted with Germany and soon enough a full-scale war had erupted. The Army reported within the opening months that they had taken staggering casualties, although nobody was quite certain how that worked. In any case, certain members of Parliment began to discuss the possibility of negotiation a peace, something I was quite opposed to. It would only take a single good engagement to turn the war in Italy's favor.
Sure enough, a couple months later a lone German cruiser was spotted off the coast of Sicily. A pair of new Messina-class light cruisers wasted no time in engaging the German. These ships had been designed to hit well above their weight-class, each mounting a quartet of 8" guns with a healthy complement of anti-destroyer secondaries. They had a decent enough speed for the time, but paid for this with relatively thin armor.
Still, they were potent ships and the enemy cruiser, a member of the Victoria Louise-class, was quickly slowed to a crawl by their combined fire. It was soon decided that the DDs would get to play their part in the battle and were sent on a torpedo run. The relatively new DD Alpino led the charge, but the Victoria Louise-class's gunners proved defiant and quickly laid a round into her. She turned away as Artigliere took the lead, Borea close behind her. As those ships began to pass the German cruiser, the force commander upon the Civitavecchia soon heard a DD captain radio she had fired torpedoes. Wanting to know who to recommend for a medal should the torpedo impact, the commander quickly demanded to know whether it was Artigliere or Borea who had fired.
It was Alpino.
A memorandum regarding the firing of torpedoes when there is no physical way they will impact is currently being distributed.
Amiral Charner looks like it's supposed to be an armored cruiser but somehow wasn't fast enough to qualify. No idea what was going on with Regina Margerita, though. How many of them did you have to rebuild? Just one, but it was still an annoyance.
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Post by Adseria on Mar 12, 2019 22:29:20 GMT -6
I know exactly what was going on. Heck, it even tells you in the name: they needed space to store the Queen's supply of cocktails.
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Post by noshurviverse on Mar 12, 2019 22:48:42 GMT -6
Finally, to round off the stupidity of the early years of this campaign, I'll bring up this raider interception. The Italian cruiser Bari intercepted a similar sized German cruiser of Gazelle-class and a simple duel ensued. Bari began taking rather too many hits for comfort so decided to retreat having landed a half dozen hits of her own upon the Gazelle. I then decided to take a look at the post battle screen.
6 hits. 4 absorbed by coal bunkers, 2 absorbed by unarmored gun turrets without even destroying them.
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Post by Adseria on Mar 12, 2019 22:55:07 GMT -6
"Herr Leutnant, activate the shield generators!"
To be fair, you did ignore a hit that damaged the hull (at 08:08) and a near miss which obviously did serious damage (at 07:16).
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Post by noshurviverse on Mar 12, 2019 23:17:38 GMT -6
NEVERMIND ITALY IS JUST FULL OF SURPRISES
I decided to take a look at my predreads in mid-1908 to see if we could get some extra millage out of them. After all, even with 50% tech, we had undergone several advancements and I wagered we might be able to increase the speed of the battle line to something more respectable. The Italia-class had not been touched since their original commissioning, so they were well due for a revamp.
With 70 tons left over in the original design, I was rather confident. I selected "replace machinery" and was promptly informed that the Italia-class was now over a hundred tons overweight.
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Post by Adseria on Mar 13, 2019 0:16:27 GMT -6
Were they maybe originally built in a country that had better machinery tech than you have even now, so you're replacing the foreign engines with worse homemade ones?
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Post by noshurviverse on Mar 13, 2019 0:28:32 GMT -6
Were they maybe originally built in a country that had better machinery tech than you have even now, so you're replacing the foreign engines with worse homemade ones? I just went to check that, but the only nation I can rebuild with right now is the USA and A-H. Same results with the US, A-H is slightly worse weight-wise. Oh, and I had a rematch of the Bari/Gazelle encounter. 3 hits landed by my cruiser, 2 of which were eaten up by coal bunkers.
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Post by Adseria on Mar 13, 2019 1:17:18 GMT -6
Were they maybe originally built in a country that had better machinery tech than you have even now, so you're replacing the foreign engines with worse homemade ones? I just went to check that, but the only nation I can rebuild with right now is the USA and A-H. Same results with the US, A-H is slightly worse weight-wise. Oh, and I had a rematch of the Bari/Gazelle encounter. 3 hits landed by my cruiser, 2 of which were eaten up by coal bunkers.
Yes, but if the ships were originally built in, for example, Britain, they might have had significantly better engine tech during the initial construction than you, the US or A-H can manage now.
Also, have you considered not aiming at the coal bunkers?
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Post by noshurviverse on Mar 13, 2019 1:31:34 GMT -6
Yes, but if the ships were originally built in, for example, Britain, they might have had significantly better engine tech during the initial construction than you, the US or A-H can manage now.
Also, have you considered not aiming at the coal bunkers? :P
Just went in to test that idea. Started a new campaign and planned out a ship of identical stats to the Italia-class. As it turns out, they're almost 500t overweight, both when Italy and Great Britain build them.
And I'll have you know that were RtW battle scenarios longer my gunner's tactics of destroying the enemy's fuel would most certainly be effective.
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Post by Adseria on Mar 13, 2019 2:04:07 GMT -6
I said "for example, Britain." I didn't necessarily mean Britain specifically. Also, I never said I was right; it was a suggestion, not an explanation.
And I don't imagine that destroying coal works like that. I can't say I've ever tried blowing up coal with a 5" naval shell, but I imagine you'd just end up with coal dust, which I'd think would actually work better as fuel, because A: you could store it more efficiently, and B: it would burn more efficiently. In other words, I think your efforts at logistical interdiction would backfire.
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Post by yemo on Mar 13, 2019 2:35:18 GMT -6
The auto-designs do not have to conform to the same requirements as player designs.
Just start a new game (eg with France) and check the auto-designs. I get a B which has 1464 tons weight remaining (which is not a real problem, just more expensive than it should be). And I get a 5500 ton CL design, which is 226 tons overweight. When I click on the little red checkmark for that design, it tells me that it is identified as a "CA" and if I want to "change type and continue"? When I click "Ok", it brings up the design report, which states "Error: Ship is seriously overweight!" Another CL design does not even allow me to get this far and tells me that it is an "illegal ship configuration" when I click on the little red checkmark in the ship design screen. It is a 2500 ton design, 75 tons overweight and has 7 inch wing turrets, which are apparently not allowed on ships smaller than 5000 tons.
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Post by MateDow on Mar 13, 2019 2:37:55 GMT -6
I said "for example, Britain." I didn't necessarily mean Britain specifically. Also, I never said I was right; it was a suggestion, not an explanation.
And I don't imagine that destroying coal works like that. I can't say I've ever tried blowing up coal with a 5" naval shell, but I imagine you'd just end up with coal dust, which I'd think would actually work better as fuel, because A: you could store it more efficiently, and B: it would burn more efficiently. In other words, I think your efforts at logistical interdiction would backfire.
Coal dust tends to be explosive so you wouldn't want to feed it into your boilers. It would also fall through the grates if it didn't explode while throwing it in.
Most of the explosive effect of the 5" shell is expended reducing the coal in its immediate vicinity to dust or small pieces. This doesn't leave enough energy to deform or damage the bulkheads surrounding the bunker.
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Post by aeson on Mar 13, 2019 3:01:59 GMT -6
I said "for example, Britain." I didn't necessarily mean Britain specifically. Also, I never said I was right; it was a suggestion, not an explanation. As far as I am aware, no nation has any advantage in machinery, armor, or hull weights or costs at the start of the game, whether direct or indirect. I think, however, that there is a minor bug in Rule the Waves which does not always fully clear the weight savings for a new game, because I've occasionally found myself with extra tonnage for legacy fleet designs that were identical to legacy designs I've used in other games. For example, a 500t legacy fleet destroyer with six torpedo tubes can usually only manage 26 knots with three 2" guns, or 25 knots with three 3" guns or one 4" gun, but every once in a while the game lets me design a 500t legacy fleet destroyer with six torpedo tubes and three 3" guns for 27 or 28 knots. Dust's harder to move than big lumps are, and considering that it was created mostly by shells exploding in the coal bunker it might also be scattered all over the place or blasted out of the ship rather than being where it's relatively easy for the stokers to collect and shovel into the furnaces. Also, coal dust is an explosive hazard if it becomes mixed with air. Big lumps of coal, for the most part, are not.
Oh, and coal dust is also what gives people black lung disease - not that navies at the turn of the century would have been all that likely to care.
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Post by Adseria on Mar 13, 2019 3:10:39 GMT -6
Ugh. Why does science always have to ruin comedy?
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