Overgunned DDs?

[archelaos]

This is my first game on the newest update and it is really refreshing, as AI uses multitude of designs it was not using earlier. For example DDs - 2xI 5in, 4xI 2in on just 700t. French even built 1x5in 4x2in on 500t.

As 5in is lethal against those small DDs, sometimes even one hit-kill level of lethal, I was considering, for example: 900t with 3xI 5in and 2x2TT?

On the other hand, the design screen says they have -10 RoF and Accuracy penalty. While Rof may not be that bad, -10 acc for DD that has poor acc to start with is not really encouraging.

So maybe 5xI 4in would be better?

[garrisonchisholm]

I have never paid heed to accuracy warnings, and my top-end DD's sometimes mount 8 6-inchers in 4 twins. I have never noticed a failure of accuracy that has cost me anything, and it make "destroyer sweep" missions a walk in the park.

I say mount 'em up!

[JagdFlanker]

i can live with less ROF but accuracy penalties make me cringe so i stick with 4" up to 1100t

900t DDs with 4" 0-1-A gun positions are pretty vicious

[RNRobert]

Personally, I prefer DDs with heavy torpedo armament. I can usually mount 4 TT on my 600-tonners, with 2x4 inch for gun armament.

[rimbecano]

I generally use 1x1 5" early, and 1x1 6" or 2x1 5" later on. I'll sometimes arm an early DD with 1x1 4".

[Noname117]

I generally like to make a couple classes of DD late game, usually one armed with a heavy torpedo broadside (9-16) and a few 5" guns, and one with a larger amount of 5" guns (8-10 with double turrets) and less torpedoes (4-6). Destroyers with more guns are definitely more suited for destroyer actions. Destroyers with more torpedoes are better at engaging capital ships. Build your DDs for whichever situation you see occurring more often.

Or maybe something in the middle is best.

[Airy W]

Why overgun when you can undergun?



If you go for a square gun layout you can pack a lot of torpedoes on small destroyers without sacrificing accuracy.  Yes it does mean you have to drop the guns down to 2 inch but the point of a destroyer is not to fight fair.

[ikahime]

Feb 22, 2017 23:15:35 GMT -6 Airy W said:

Why overgun when you can undergun?



If you go for a square gun layout you can pack a lot of torpedoes on small destroyers without sacrificing accuracy.  Yes it does mean you have to drop the guns down to 2 inch but the point of a destroyer is not to fight fair.

Is that many tubes even worth it early game though? My DDs never seem to want to fire their topedos when I want them too, so I tend to build them around my preferred gun arrangements, and then just add torpedoes as an afterthought. Lategame, I put torpedoes onto everything because you never know when they might turn the tide of battle, but they just aren't reliable enough to be considered a primary weapon IMO, even when playing as the Japanese.

[ikahime]

Then again, nothing is really reliable early game. Nobody can hit each other, and nothing can penetrate a battleship's armor even if you do hit. Does having more tubes increase the likelihood that torpedoes will be launched? If so then that might make it worth forgoing guns.

[garrisonchisholm]

Feb 23, 2017 1:22:36 GMT -6 ikahime said:

Then again, nothing is really reliable early game. Nobody can hit each other, and nothing can penetrate a battleship's armor even if you do hit. Does having more tubes increase the likelihood that torpedoes will be launched? If so then that might make it worth forgoing guns.

I actually voiced that suspicion a while back.  It "feels" to me like the AI makes a calculus about running in for a torpedo attack, as if the more tubes they had then the more likely it is to risk sacrificing the ship.

However, that being said, I no longer train my navies for torpedo action.  It is just too "rare" to hit, as the AI seems to maneuver against torpedoes with prescience.  It is much more important to me to train in night and gunnery, as gunnery is vastly more reliable.

I definitely want torpedo tubes around, as nothing finishes off a crippled ship better, but I only add TONS of torpedoes in the late game, when tonnage is not really an issue.  Until then, torps are few and far between; just like their hits.  

[Airy W]

I have had plenty of situations where my destroyers have fired multiple torpedoes, sometimes simultaneously and often exhausting their ammo. They aren't going to fire at the exact moment that I want them to but if the conditions are generally favorable for a long period of time they will favor.

And occasionally fleets stumble into each other at close range and I have a very good night.

[Noname117]

I will say early game I usually like building destroyers with a gun focus, usually whatever said DDs can carry without suffering a RoF penalty. One the DDs start to get to 900 or 1100 tons I find torpedo destroyers start becoming more important and that is usually when I start specializing my DDs for either gun fighting or torpedoes.

[axe99]

Feb 22, 2017 19:42:02 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

I have never paid heed to accuracy warnings, and my top-end DD's sometimes mount 8 6-inchers in 4 twins. I have never noticed a failure of accuracy that has cost me anything, and it make "destroyer sweep" missions a walk in the park.

I say mount 'em up!

!

That's not a destroyer, that's a CL That forgot to pack armour .

That said, when I saw the subject topic, I thought "overgunned DDs?  No such thing!" although I tend to stick to the guns the displacement can handle without accuracy issues so haven't tried six-inchers (historically, the Germans had at least designed and maybe almost finished one 2000+ ton DD in late WW1 with either a 5.9 or 6 inch main armament, so it's not historically inappropriate to have 6 inchers on a RtW DD).  I prefer gun to torp-heavy DDs m'self (although have at least 4 tubes on my later game DDs).

[RNRobert]

I haven't had too many problems getting torpedo hits even in the game (and neither, it appears, does my enemy). That may be because my philosophy is that a destroyer's primary mission is to kill capital ships, so mine tend to be more torpedo-heavy.

[klavohunter]

Feb 22, 2017 23:15:35 GMT -6 Airy W said:

Why overgun when you can undergun?



If you go for a square gun layout you can pack a lot of torpedoes on small destroyers without sacrificing accuracy.  Yes it does mean you have to drop the guns down to 2 inch but the point of a destroyer is not to fight fair.

I used this pattern for my first few generations of Destroyers in a slow-tech Austria-Hungary game, but I used 3", 4" and then 5" guns on those designs.

Yes, early destroyers' torpedoes are anemic and unlikely to fire:  But, piling 3 or 4 centerline torpedoes on early DDs keeps them dangerous if you still have those destroyers later in the game, and find yourself using them.