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Post by babylon218 on May 15, 2017 9:57:14 GMT -6
Following internal review and a reconsideration of the design specifications, Vickers-Allington Shipbuilders have updated our submission for the C1 design contract, providing a design which, we feel, is far better suited to the needs of the Sultan.
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Post by Airy W on May 15, 2017 14:05:16 GMT -6
Here is the groundbreaking Florentine armored cruiser Vettor Pisani: Vettor Pisani.50d (5.05 KB) This ship makes full advantage of superior Italian 3 inch guns (Please ignore the uncanny resemblance to a British 12 pounder. The sticker clearly states that these guns are of Italian manufacture). The ship is optimized around pursuit combat. The ingenious 1-2 turret configuration allows the ship to effectively fire two guns in the forward or aft direction without any rate of fire penalty due to bottlenecks at the elevators. With the strong deck armor and high speed it will be able to make good use of this ability in long range pursuit combat. Against destroyers it has thick enough deck armor to safely bring it's powerful 12 pounder 76mm armament to bear. For the light cruiser design I once again offer the Taranto class which I have previously brought to your attention:
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Post by babylon218 on May 15, 2017 14:35:23 GMT -6
I just checked out of curiosity in the in-game file, and it looks like tensions are so high that the OP actually can't order ships from Italy. Is there a workaround to that (if he edits the Italian ship designs johnw has provided to be Ottoman designs, can those then be laid down in Italian yards despite the high tensions)?
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Post by parrot on May 15, 2017 17:20:07 GMT -6
I just checked out of curiosity in the in-game file, and it looks like tensions are so high that the OP actually can't order ships from Italy. Is there a workaround to that (if he edits the Italian ship designs johnw has provided to be Ottoman designs, can those then be laid down in Italian yards despite the high tensions)? He knew the risks when he chose Italy, now he's paying the price. The proud Ottoman Navy would never place an order for pathetic Italian ships anyway (unless tensions die down and they make a good offer). Also, changing designs after you've submitted them is fine.
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Post by archelaos on May 15, 2017 17:23:49 GMT -6
FTS&E project 044 PC-2 Armed with mixed battery of deck mounted 6" and 5" guns, PC-2 from FTS&E is a perfect fit for the Greatest Sultan's Navy. Equipped with 20 Belleville boilers and most modern engines providing 2 shafts with 7650 HP per shaft, the ship will be able to maintain respectable 22 knots for extended periods. Ship will be well armoured for it's size, and perfectly capable to defeat other navies raider cruisers and AMCs as well as provide vital scouting for the fleet and break up any attack attempts of smaller ships like TBs or TBDs. Design details: Artistic impression of the ship, as completed for Glorious Ottoman Navy: Ziped design and side view files: FTSE PC2.zip (47.02 KB)
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Post by parrot on May 15, 2017 18:31:42 GMT -6
July 1901 Update
World News -Armed rebellion against Ottoman rule begins in Libya. Reinforcements are dispatched from Anatolia, while the Ottoman government places the blame on 'Italian agitators'. -Elections conclude in Spain, with the Liberal Party gaining an astonishing 143 seats from their rival Conservatives. -A man in Chicago is fined for driving at a ludicrous 20mph in an 8mph zone. -War continues in Southern Africa, with several Boer attacks into the Cape Colony. -The United States finishes demobilising volunteer units from the Spanish-American War. Fighting continues in the Philippines. -The Ottoman government approves spending to improve vital railroads.
Naval News -Italy begins construction on a fourth battleship, which would give them a decisive edge over the Ottoman or Austrian navies. -Germany further increases its naval budget. -The Ottoman Naval Ministry announces the construction of three new cruisers.
Competition 1 Results
After receiving many impressive designs, the Ministry has come to a decision regarding the expansion of its cruiser forces. Careful consideration has concluded that the Armoured Cruiser offered by the Clark Family Shipbuilding's local yard is best suited to our purposes. Accordingly, we have placed an order for one such cruiser, with the option for a second upon completion.
In addition, the naval ministry is most pleased with the exceptional scout cruiser design submitted by the Wilhelmshaven division of Wignall & Co. An order for four of these cruisers, with construction to begin at staggered intervals, has been placed.
The Minister would like to express his personal disappointment with the arrogance of an Italian shipyard, who will not be named, in assuming they could receive contracts at a time when their own government displays such hostility to our own.
[Well, it looks like all six current yards got their designs in well ahead of schedule, so I've gone ahead and made my choices. The CA was quite a difficult one to decide on! Ultimately, I decided that executor's design was the best mix of cost and performance. I suppose we haven't had enough time for the Ottomans to fall too far behind on tech? I've gone with a very risky choice for the CL, but I appreciate the bold design! So small, so fast, and so very cheap. I would note that in your design file, wiggy, you actually made it in a local yard, so I switched it over to Germany. Anyway, congratulations to the winners, thanks to everyone who participated, and apologies to johnw, as tensions forbade me from considering your designs.]
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Post by boomboomf22 on May 15, 2017 18:41:25 GMT -6
Not to sabotage a rival, but your gonna lose the PC to splinter and machinery damage due to its lack of deck armor
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Post by Airy W on May 15, 2017 18:42:21 GMT -6
He knew the risks when he chose Italy, I'm a glutton for punishment. But hey, I chose to be Italian so you already knew that.
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Post by parrot on May 15, 2017 18:45:04 GMT -6
Not to sabotage a rival, but your gonna lose the PC to splinter and machinery damage due to its lack of deck armor At like half the price of its rivals, I can afford to lose a few. My thinking was basically "this will allow me, even if only on paper, some degree of numerical parity with enemy cruiser forces."
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Post by boomboomf22 on May 15, 2017 19:04:02 GMT -6
Not to sabotage a rival, but your gonna lose the PC to splinter and machinery damage due to its lack of deck armor At like half the price of its rivals, I can afford to lose a few. My thinking was basically "this will allow me, even if only on paper, some degree of numerical parity with enemy cruiser forces." Fair, i tend to comment before thinking. At the time i posted I hadn't realized it was 2100 tons and thus cheap as chips
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Post by parrot on May 15, 2017 19:04:48 GMT -6
At like half the price of its rivals, I can afford to lose a few. My thinking was basically "this will allow me, even if only on paper, some degree of numerical parity with enemy cruiser forces." Fair, i tend to comment before thinking. At the time i posted I hadn't realized it was 2100 tons and thus cheap as chips Don't worry, I have a nasty feeling that a few pages from now you'll have a few good 'I told you so' moments Edit: Just running through some gameplay now. War with Italy happened, but unfortunately only a couple of the CLs got in before it ended, and they didn't even see any combat (well, one got sunk by a mine...). The CA is still under construction too. I'm going to write up a news post and have a new design competition for destroyers in a minute.
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Post by theexecuter on May 15, 2017 21:21:42 GMT -6
Heh... I was just logging in to make changes to my armored cruiser design and to upload the save files. Looks like you were too fast for me. Ah well, quite realistic for a Subpar Porte.
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Post by parrot on May 15, 2017 21:45:31 GMT -6
September 1903 Update
World News-Italian-Turkish War is brought to a close by the treaty of Valletta. Italy agrees to stay out of Libya, while the Ottomans are forced to accept local autonomy and not station troops in the territory. See below for in-depth analysis.-Work begins on the 'Berlin Baghdad Railway', a venture primarily financed by Germany to connect Constantinople (and thus Germany) to Baghdad by rail.-A large uprising in Macedonia is launched. However, it comes too late to be assisted by Italy, and Ottoman troops in the area suppress it with ease. Guerrilla activity continues.Naval News-Many navies begin to order submarines, as technological advances make them more feasible as military vessels.-Commissions into the poor performance of their respective fleets begin in both Italy and the Ottoman Empire.-New defences are completed on the Albanian coast.The Italo-Turkish WarThroughout 1901 and into 1902, the Ottoman Empire was attempting to deal with rebellion in both Macedonia and Libya. While some European powers expressed their displeasure at the situation, the Italian government saw an opportunity to take control of Libya - and possibly even Albania - from the declining Ottomans. By early 1902, Ottoman troops had the situation in Macedonia under control, but had suffered a series of defeats in Libya, where they now only held on to Benghazi. The Italian government declared that it was its duty to intervene in the situation, and stated their intention to annex Libya (for its own protection, of course). The Ottoman Empire made it clear that they would treat any such action as a declaration of war. Tensions ran high as the Italians mobilised their forces, and the Ottomans prepared a relief force for Libya. It was at this time that major delays and cost overruns were discovered in the construction of Italy's new battleship, even in the early stage of its construction. With this in mind, and with the budget strained by the mobilisation of land forces, it was cancelled, and the existing work sold for scrap.Comparison of naval forces at the opening of the war.A skirmish in the Straits of Otranto between the Armoured Cruisers Hamidiye and Marco Polo'was inconclusive, but caused outrage in Italy, who soon declared war on the Ottomans. Soon thereafter, the first major fleet action of the war was fought. On April 17, 1902, the Ottoman relief force set sail for Libya, escorted by the entire Ottoman fleet. This proved to be a wise choice, as the Italian fleet attempted to intercept about 150km west of Crete. Both sides brought all three battleships to the battle, but the Italians brought only one armoured cruiser and two destroyers to the Ottomans armoured cruiser, two scout cruisers, and four destroyers. In addition the Italian battleships, all of the Regina Margerita class, were marginally outclassed by the French-built Ottoman ships, though not to a great extent. The Italian Regina Margerita classWhen it became clear that the Ottomans were escorting the convoy with their entire fleet, the Italians decided to retire, and the Ottomans pursued.The Ottomans pursue the Italian fleetAfter a lucky hit slowed the rear-most Italian battleship, the Ottomans closed in to hit it with their quick-firing medium guns. However, a torpedo from the Italian ship hit the lead Ottoman ship, the Tugrut Reis, which was forced to immediately head for port.The Italians knock the Tugrut out of the fightThe remaining Ottoman battleships attempted to pursue the enemy ship further. However, they ran out of shells after firing only half their allotted ammunition, and could not get in range to use their secondary and tertiary guns. With night approaching, they gave up the chase and returned to the convoy.In the end, both sides lost a single destroyer. The Ottomans took moderate damage from gunfire to one battleship, while another was in the docks for 4 months due to the torpedo hit. In return, they only managed some light damage to the Italian battleship. They had achieved their objective of defending the convoy, which made it to Libya untouched, but were disappointed with their failure to inflict much damage on the enemy fleet.While the garrison at Benghazi was likely saved by the timely arrival of the convoy, and they began pushing back against the rebels, the Italians also managed to land their force and took Tripoli with ease. The Ottomans had some reprieve, however, when the armoured cruiser Hamidiye intercepted a follow-up Italian convoy just before nightfall. As the sun set, the cruiser went ahead at full speed into the middle of the convoy. The protected cruiser and two destroyers guarding the convoy were unable, or unwilling, to dive into the mess of fleeing and burning ships in the darkness, and failed to score any hits on their enemy. The Hamidiye soon sailed away, having sunk all seven of the convoys transports, and scoring a nasty hit on one of the destroyers when they stumbled across eachother during the night.A great relief for Ottoman troops in LibyaThe campaign in Libya stalled, for both sides. They would fight just three battles against eachother, only one of which was a major engagement, as they spent most of their time fighting the Libyans who had begun the rebellion. The Italian military decided that a landing across the Straits of Otranto was in order. A quick campaign to take Albania would allow them to link up with Macedonian rebels and force the Ottomans to the table. They landed unopposed in the far north and south of the country, intending to press inwards to envelop Durres and Tirana. Despite the easy landing, the Italians encountered heavier resistance than expected. Troops that had just finished putting down the Macedonian rebellion were close enough to quickly move in and prevent either Vlore, or Durres from falling, denying the use of these ports to the Italians. With this invasion, requests for increased funding from the Navy were repeatedly denied due to the pressing needs of the land campaign.The Italians decided that the support of naval guns would be enough to break the siege of Vlore, and thus the deadlock of the Albanian campaign. The Libyan theatre, ostensibly the reason the war began, seemed to drop from everyone's mind. A first, inconclusive action was fought on March 7 1903, with the Italians again withdrawing soon after contact. On the First of May, the Italians were forced to try again. Their troops in Albania were becoming desperate, and the government demanded action. Once again, the Ottomans blocked their approach to the Albanian coast, though the Italians stuck around to exchange fire for longer than usual. Once again, though, they had withdrawn before any serious damage was done, frustrating the Ottoman fleet for a third time. After some poor manoeuvring and a lucky shot from the Ottomans, though, the Italian armoured cruiser Marco Polo was cut off from the rest of the fleet by the Ottomans. This time, they would not allow the Italians to leave unscathed.The Ottomans finally get the chance they've been waiting forThe Italian battleships turned again, appearing to come to the aid of their cruiser, but they instead merely loitered, firing their guns at maximum range, fearing any attempt to approach. The Ottomans took full advantage of this. Their battleships had, once again, exhausted their supply of primary ammunition far earlier than would be expected (if they were actually carrying their allotted number of shells, that is), but could easily pound the Marco Polo with their medium and light guns. The Polo soon caught fire, and not long after that slowed to a near-stop. Two torpedoes from the Ottoman battleships finished it off, and the Italian fleet retired to Taranto. In the end, the Ottomans failed to score a single hit on the Italian battleships, but had nonetheless left with their morale gaining a much needed boost, and sinking an important ship the Italians had no immediate replacement for.
June saw a pair of embarrassing defeats for the navy, but a glorious victory for the army. Italian forces in Albania were tired, worn down by the constant fighting, poorly supplied, and demoralised by the static nature the fighting had taken on. On the 3rd, the Ottomans began a large operation to, hopefully, finish off the Italians. The Ottomans had spent months building up their strength while that of the Italians withered away. The first part of the operation was an offensive against the Italians in the north. Ottoman troops moved along the coast and successfully cut them off from their beaches, before turning inland and continuing the attack. In just 6 days, the Italians in the north surrendered. The Ottomans then turned south. The troops in Vlore launched a surprise attack overnight, while the bulk of the army began their offensive the next morning. The Italian forces were in a state of chaos, communication broke down and their defences crumbled. On the 20th, the Italian commander surrendered to the Ottomans. The navy had no such luck. On the 8th, the scout cruiser Muavenet-i Milliye was sunk in an engagement with an Italian cruiser, which it mistook for a friendly vessel, before being treated to a devastating salvo when it signalled the enemy ship. Even more embarrassingly, the new Ankara class Numune-i Hamiyet was sunk on its maiden patrol, when it hit a friendly mine in the Ionian Sea. Fighting in continued in Libya (entirely against rebel forces) for another month. A ceasefire was called at the end of August, and negotiations began in September, leading to the signing of the Treaty of Valletta (Malta), on September 18th, 1903. In the treaty, the Italians agreed to not interfere in internal Ottoman affairs, and recognised Libya, Albania, and Macedonia as part of the Empire. The Ottomans agreed to withdraw all troops from Libya, and recognise it as autonomous, but still part of the Empire. Though the government rode a wave of popularity after their victory, it masked the more unsavoury truth: The Ottomans had, in effect, lost control of Libya, had gained no land or other concessions, and while their army performed admirably, the navy seriously under performed. A commission was set up in the aftermath of the war to investigate the performance of the fleet. Accuracy was expected to be very low at the time, but Ottoman gunnery was abysmal even by the standards of the time. The Italians regularly out-performed them in this regard, and Ottoman ships often missed much of their shots even at close range. Additionally, the fleet seemed to run out of ammo far earlier than it should, in nearly every engagement. It was well known, though not officially reported, that corruption was to blame. The Italian government instituted a similar commission, though they were more concerned with the command of the fleet - accused by many of cowardice - who repeatedly refused to engage the enemy fleet, even when Marco Polo was in imminent danger. [So, the first war of the game, and the player-designed ships don't even get a battle! We can now say that the first player-ship lost was to a mine. Okay, it wasn't a friendly mine, that's not a thing in RTW, but I thought it added to the story. I'll follow up this post with the second competition, for a destroyer. Let me know if you have any suggestions for the AAR, by the way. @theexecutor, yeah, that's the risk. I don't mind if you change designs, there's just no guarantee that you'll get in in time.]
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Post by garrisonchisholm on May 15, 2017 22:08:06 GMT -6
Fairfield-Tarnowski Shipbiulding & Engineering (FTS&E) is extremely proud to present it's first design entry - armoured cruiser project 042. Artistic representation of the ship in the service of the great Sultan. * I assume Harvey plates are around 25% thicker than equivalent Krupp plates Below zipped design and side view. Looks darn sweet Arch, bravo.
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Post by boomboomf22 on May 15, 2017 22:10:19 GMT -6
What fleet size are you playing on? Those budgets seem awfully small for a hist resources game... tho I haven't played Italy in a while. And our first war ends as most first wars end in RTW, with a wimper. Or at least that has been my experience
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