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Post by dorn on Jun 21, 2019 12:19:07 GMT -6
Kinda a pain in the butt when you have to leave old BCs un-refit so they stay battlecruiser-y instead of transforming into BBs. You can dismiss change to BB during refit.
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Post by jorgencab on Jun 21, 2019 17:07:31 GMT -6
Kinda a pain in the butt when you have to leave old BCs un-refit so they stay battlecruiser-y instead of transforming into BBs. I think the game should punish harder... ships should automatically turn into the class they belong to when they no longer fulfils the requirement for that class, not just when you refit them. If you want a ship to continue to be a battle-cruiser over time you should have to refit their engines periodically or the will automatically become labelled and used as battleships rather than battle cruisers. In order to fulfil the role as cruiser there should be a minimum required speed or they should not spawn in the cruiser role anymore. I would not mind if ships could fall out of the spectrum to act as regular active ships at all anymore unless you refit them properly. You might be relegated to use them only as trade protection or they could spawn as convoy protection during such tactical missions Such ships should have its own class, or there should just be an obsolete class where ships have very restrictive options for what they can do.
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Post by trifler on Jun 21, 2019 18:45:18 GMT -6
... you can run into issues with them in battles, such as decreased speed, because "her old engines are acting up", or with damage control, "aging structure increases leaking" etc. Ok, thanks. I'll take this as the answer then.
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Post by brucesim2003 on Jun 21, 2019 18:48:48 GMT -6
Kinda a pain in the butt when you have to leave old BCs un-refit so they stay battlecruiser-y instead of transforming into BBs. I think the game should punish harder... ships should automatically turn into the class they belong to when they no longer fulfils the requirement for that class, not just when you refit them. If you want a ship to continue to be a battle-cruiser over time you should have to refit their engines periodically or the will automatically become labelled and used as battleships rather than battle cruisers. In order to fulfil the role as cruiser there should be a minimum required speed or they should not spawn in the cruiser role anymore. I would not mind if ships could fall out of the spectrum to act as regular active ships at all anymore unless you refit them properly. You might be relegated to use them only as trade protection or they could spawn as convoy protection during such tactical missions Such ships should have its own class, or there should just be an obsolete class where ships have very restrictive options for what they can do. No, this would be too much. The I class battlecruisers remained battlecruisers in 1918, when by the game specs (and your idea) they would have ceased to be so. You would also have ships that would be 'category obsolete' before they commission. How would you rate the E.Yorck class, considering they would have had an extremely short life as a battlecruiser under your system?
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Post by jishmael on Jun 22, 2019 1:48:58 GMT -6
Possibly stupid question, but would the reclass to bb have any consequences besides making the ship not appear in cruiser actions anymore if under 27kn?
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Post by mycophobia on Jun 22, 2019 2:24:45 GMT -6
Possibly stupid question, but would the reclass to bb have any consequences besides making the ship not appear in cruiser actions anymore if under 27kn? From what I’ve seen, Fast BB seems to show up less often in cruiser action compared to BC, about 50-70% as often based in my experience. They also get placed with other BBs in fleet battle, possibly with older ships that may slow them down. Otherwise there doesn’t seem to be any other adverse impact
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Post by dorn on Jun 22, 2019 2:55:35 GMT -6
Possibly stupid question, but would the reclass to bb have any consequences besides making the ship not appear in cruiser actions anymore if under 27kn? I would guess that the only reason to do so is that battlecruiser is too slow and would not fit to battlecruiser divisions but would be good for fast battleships. Eg. 27 knots German style (heavy armour)
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Post by jorgencab on Jun 22, 2019 3:20:50 GMT -6
I think the game should punish harder... ships should automatically turn into the class they belong to when they no longer fulfils the requirement for that class, not just when you refit them. If you want a ship to continue to be a battle-cruiser over time you should have to refit their engines periodically or the will automatically become labelled and used as battleships rather than battle cruisers. In order to fulfil the role as cruiser there should be a minimum required speed or they should not spawn in the cruiser role anymore. I would not mind if ships could fall out of the spectrum to act as regular active ships at all anymore unless you refit them properly. You might be relegated to use them only as trade protection or they could spawn as convoy protection during such tactical missions Such ships should have its own class, or there should just be an obsolete class where ships have very restrictive options for what they can do. No, this would be too much. The I class battlecruisers remained battlecruisers in 1918, when by the game specs (and your idea) they would have ceased to be so. You would also have ships that would be 'category obsolete' before they commission. How would you rate the E.Yorck class, considering they would have had an extremely short life as a battlecruiser under your system? I don't see how that would be the case at all... the ship would not cease to be something, they just would no longer spawn in certain types of missions because in realistic terms they would not do so in the real world either because they don't have the speed or capabilities to fulfil that role anymore. This is what happened to ships in real life. It would be nice if the game modelled that a bit better. They player should not be able to decide these things because that is a bit "gamey" and the game are already pretty good at simulating many similar things. The threshold of what speed requirement ships need should generally be about the speed of the general ships in service around the world. It should not have anything to do about set dates. This would not make ships obsolete before they are commissioned. Just because there are a few fast battle ship around wold not make older battle cruisers obsolete as soon as they are commissioned.
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Post by mycophobia on Jun 22, 2019 3:31:25 GMT -6
No, this would be too much. The I class battlecruisers remained battlecruisers in 1918, when by the game specs (and your idea) they would have ceased to be so. You would also have ships that would be 'category obsolete' before they commission. How would you rate the E.Yorck class, considering they would have had an extremely short life as a battlecruiser under your system? I don't see how that would be the case at all... the ship would not cease to be something, they just would no longer spawn in certain types of missions because in realistic terms they would not do so in the real world either because they don't have the speed or capabilities to fulfil that role anymore. This is what happened to ships in real life. It would be nice if the game modelled that a bit better. They player should not be able to decide these things because that is a bit "gamey" and the game are already pretty good at simulating many similar things. The threshold of what speed requirement ships need should generally be about the speed of the general ships in service around the world. It should not have anything to do about set dates. This would not make ships obsolete before they are commissioned. Just because there are a few fast battle ship around wold not make older battle cruisers obsolete as soon as they are commissioned. Honestly this is the exact kind of decision player as admiral can actually make. “Do I keep old slow BC in the BC division where they will slow down other ships, or show up in fights they are too slow for, or relegate them to BB role and use them in gun lines” In real life any decision to not use a BC in that capacity is done by the admiralty, not some spontaneous force caused by the international standard speed for new BCs. If player wants to keep using old 26 knot BC as B.C. in 1930, let them. When these 26 BC gets tossed into fights against new and faster enemy BC with no friendly BB support the player can learn his lesson. Alternatively, the player may enjoy using 26 BC in safer sea zones to hunt early enemy cruiser. Bottom line is that we already see complaints about inability to fine tune ship roles, the BB/BC class change Iis one of few areas where we can actually have that agency, so I believe it should stay
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Post by jorgencab on Jun 22, 2019 3:37:08 GMT -6
I don't see how that would be the case at all... the ship would not cease to be something, they just would no longer spawn in certain types of missions because in realistic terms they would not do so in the real world either because they don't have the speed or capabilities to fulfil that role anymore. This is what happened to ships in real life. It would be nice if the game modelled that a bit better. They player should not be able to decide these things because that is a bit "gamey" and the game are already pretty good at simulating many similar things. The threshold of what speed requirement ships need should generally be about the speed of the general ships in service around the world. It should not have anything to do about set dates. This would not make ships obsolete before they are commissioned. Just because there are a few fast battle ship around wold not make older battle cruisers obsolete as soon as they are commissioned. Honestly this is the exact kind of decision player as admiral can actually make. “Do I keep old slow BC in the BC division where they will slow down other ships, or show up in fights they are too slow for, or relegate them to BB role and use them in gun lines” In real life any decision to not use a BC in that capacity is done by the admiralty, not some spontaneous force caused by the international standard speed for new BCs. If player wants to keep using old 26 knot BC as B.C. in 1930, let them. When these 26 BC gets tossed into fights against new and faster enemy BC with no friendly BB support the player can learn his lesson. Alternatively, the player may enjoy using 26 BC in safer sea zones to hunt early enemy cruiser. Bottom line is that we already see complaints about inability to fine tune ship roles, the BB/BC class change Iis one of few areas where we can actually have that agency, so I believe it should stay Yes... I think you are right... perhaps I just would like to have the option of reclassify ships without refitting them then. I would also like to relegate old ships to secondary roles such as say convoy duty. The Japanese for examples used old armoured cruisers as convoy escort duty and as mobile artillery platforms, a role a 22-24 knot cruiser did quite well. I would like for me to use such ships in such secondary roles in the game too, the only way for me to use them then is trade protection, which is something they was not really used as. They were far to expensive to drive around as trade protection vessels. I would like a role that reduce maintenance requirements on ships and then relegate them to supportive mission, this is usually what happened during WW2 for Japan and to some extent also Italy I think used older ships this way.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Jul 6, 2019 0:04:10 GMT -6
I have not found that maintenance cost increase on older ships ... Look here: +50% after 5 years (it's 1914) is pretty significant, isn't it?
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Post by deeznuts on Jul 7, 2019 4:11:24 GMT -6
You can reject turning Battlecruisers into Battleships after refits, which can lead to th peculiar circumstance of your Battleships being faster than your Battlecruisers
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Post by jorgencab on Jul 7, 2019 15:24:58 GMT -6
I have not found that maintenance cost increase on older ships ... Look here:
+50% after 5 years (it's 1914) is pretty significant, isn't it? I don't see that maintenance increase in that picture... the ship you compare with are refitted and that is probably why they are cheaper. The components you changed are probably some engines or something that makes them cheaper in maintenance. They probably cost the same now as they did in 1900...
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Jul 7, 2019 16:09:00 GMT -6
Sorry mate, the ship (not ships!) is not refitted, but build in 1908 instead of being part of the legacy fleet. If it was a refit, it's name would be "K-109 (R1908)".
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Post by yemo on Jul 7, 2019 16:22:25 GMT -6
I m not 100% sure, but I think that ships get the (O) 10 years after they are built or last refitted. And when they have the (O) for 5 years (so 15 years after build/last refit) their maintenance is increased by 50%. If I remember correctly, that 50% maintenance increase does not go away after a simple refit anymore. Maybe an engine refit will decrease that again, have not tested that, since I always do a small refit before I get slapped with the maintenance increase.
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