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Post by archelaos on Sept 1, 2016 2:24:47 GMT -6
It seems, early torpedoes are only good for coup de grace against ships that were crippled by gunfire, as I cant get DDs to fire them if enemy is faster than 10kts and they 15-20 kts is it true or do I miss something about torp use?
I tried even to manually close in and run parallel to the target and all I got were damaged/sunk DDs, and no torpedoes launched. At which point of torpedo tech can I expect Flotilla attack to include multiple torps launched rather than gunfire only?
On related note - when I order flotilla attack DDs rarely actually attack, instead they often go in completely opposite direction. I'm probably doing sth wrong, but what?
Turret Top armour - how thick is reasonable? Can I keep it roughly as thick as the deck (as it is horizontal) or should it be thicker?
When I get battleship fund event while I have one being built, should I start new one or the one building is sufficient? Also, how long can I delay building B/BB before people start to riot due to public fund misappropriation?
Is the event that speed trials shown new class is slower than expected random or influenced by some design features? If the latter, what should I avoid (as in my first game I had 2 CL classes getting this event)
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Post by JagdFlanker on Sept 1, 2016 6:09:11 GMT -6
as for torps and flotilla attack, they both generally start to work better after 1910-ish. i research torp tech and fleet tactics on 'high' to get better results with those 2 items quicker in game
i go with 7-10 top turret armour (7 at game start, 10 by games end) and 10-14 front turret armour on my ships - might be a little high but i almost never get ammo explosions even though i have reduced flash fires risk unchecked in the preferences
in the bottom left of the 'in service' tab there's a box indicating what your build requirements are - if you are meeting them there will be an 'OK' next to it.
i very often delay ships and i'v delayed ships for 20 months on occasion but never had that result in a 'riot for fund misappropriation' that i can remember (i play the game a LOT)
from what i understand the reduced speed during ship trials event is completely random - sometimes you get an 'increased speed' message too. if you are playing UK you will get an increase of these messages compared to playing other countries
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Post by Bullethead on Sept 1, 2016 6:59:08 GMT -6
archelaos I'm pretty new at this myself but I'll give this a go. In general, I think JagdFlanker covered most of your questions but I have a few points. From what I can tell by looking at the "Jane's" info on the ships, the tech 0 torps are 14". In real life, such small, early torps had neither the speed nor the range to hit ships moving at any speed. This is due to the geometry of having to lead the target. So yeah, the starter torps are only good against cripples and transports from very short range. The 1st upgrade of torps appears to be early 18" with considerably more of both range and speed, so can be fired under a wider range of conditions. As to getting a public subscription to build a battleship, beware of sitting on the money, especially if you have a medium or smaller fleet size. The battleship funds can trigger the "hoarding" event, where the finance minister will confiscate 5-10% of your total funds per month. Thus, the money will quickly evaporate.
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Post by thatzenoguy on Sept 1, 2016 7:06:56 GMT -6
i go with 7-10 top turret armour (7 at game start, 10 by games end) and 10-14 front turret armour on my ships - might be a little high but i almost never get ammo explosions even though i have reduced flash fires risk unchecked in the preferencesYeah, you NEVER need more than 7 inches of top turret armour! D; Early game, you can do with 1-2 inches of top armour because plunging fire is not a thing. Mid is 3-4 Late is 5+ |
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Post by bcoopactual on Sept 1, 2016 9:03:35 GMT -6
When I get battleship fund event while I have one being built, should I start new one or the one building is sufficient? Also, how long can I delay building B/BB before people start to riot due to public fund misappropriation? Is the event that speed trials shown new class is slower than expected random or influenced by some design features? If the latter, what should I avoid (as in my first game I had 2 CL classes getting this event) My experience has been that the game checks for the required numbers of ships building within about 6 months of the event. I personally have never gone 20 months but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. When it makes the check you'll get a message saying that whomever is pleased to see the ships building or they will say that that they are disappointed/upset that they aren't building. The effect I remember is usually a change in prestige by one or two points either up or down depending on whether you accomplished it or not but there could be other effects like unrest that I just don't remember. After you get the happy/upset response event, the requirement will disappear from the In-Service tab screen that JagdFlanker pointed out. After that, if you really don't want to build 14 cruisers or 28 subs or whatever it is you can scrap them or pause construction with no additional penalties other than losing the funds you already spent on them. The slower than expected during speed trials event is random but the manual says that if you have the Undeveloped Shipbuilding Industry national characteristic then you are more likely to get negative events like slower or overweight so it will happen more often. Not sure if Britain's Hidden Fault characteristic does the same or if it mainly effects the chance of flash fires which it definitely does. Conversely, the Attention to Detail characteristic reduces the chance of getting faults like slower or overweight. |
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Post by Fredrik W on Sept 1, 2016 11:55:26 GMT -6
Turret Top armour - how thick is reasonable? Can I keep it roughly as thick as the deck (as it is horizontal) or should it be thicker? The program assumes that turret top armor is slightly sloped, at least for part of the turret, so shell penetration is somewhat better against turret tops that against decks. For heavy guns I would recommend a little more armor for TT than D, just as was common in historical ships. |
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Post by JagdFlanker on Sept 1, 2016 13:23:43 GMT -6
i go with 7-10 top turret armour (7 at game start, 10 by games end) and 10-14 front turret armour on my ships - might be a little high but i almost never get ammo explosions even though i have reduced flash fires risk unchecked in the preferencesYeah, you NEVER need more than 7 inches of top turret armour! D; Early game, you can do with 1-2 inches of top armour because plunging fire is not a thing. Mid is 3-4 Late is 5+ i'l reduce it some in future games i guess, but top armour isn't all that heavy so i'm not worried about the weight cost compared to the peace of mind it gives me lol |
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Post by ddg on Sept 1, 2016 14:48:02 GMT -6
The program assumes that turret top armor is slightly sloped, at least for part of the turret, so shell penetration is somewhat better against turret tops that against decks. For heavy guns I would recommend a little more armor for TT than D, just as was common in historical ships. Thanks for the info, Fredrik. That's good to know. i'l reduce it some in future games i guess, but top armour isn't all that heavy so i'm not worried about the weight cost compared to the peace of mind it gives me lol At standard 1922 tech levels, the maximum deck penetration of an 18-inch gun is 6.4". That's in ideal circumstances. No other gun exceeds 6" with that tech. That includes all but the last two AP Projectiles techs. |
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Post by director on Sept 1, 2016 15:31:07 GMT -6
For best torpedo use I find I need my DDs to get ahead of the intended target and fire back at them. I also make sure the DD flot has the intended target set (on the squadron screen), my 'Use Torps' flag is up (flagship's squadron screen) and the DDs are set to operate independently.
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Post by archelaos on Sept 2, 2016 6:37:42 GMT -6
Thanks for all suggestions!
Yesterday I had a great battle as Italy vs France. Our battlelines met in the night, though with generally good visibility. After a frantic turning, firing and torping french lost BC and 3CA mostly to gunfire, and BB to flashfire. I got many ships damaged, with one B hiting mine and at least two ships torped, but in the end, only lost my only BB, a hero of this battle, to a small leak (7pts, leftover from large leak from torpedo hit) not far from Genoa.
The problem is when i decided to break contact a group of 3 CAs started circling around some random point and i had to return to them, what probably costed me my BB. It seems they got sepatrated from the flagship (scout force, i think) and there was nothing i could do to recall them, as all buttons were greyed out, so i couldnt even attach them to other, closer flagship.
Is there sth i could do in such situation?
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Post by thatzenoguy on Sept 2, 2016 6:44:44 GMT -6
Some ships are AI only IIRC.
If the options are greyed out, there's nothing you can do.
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Post by bcoopactual on Sept 2, 2016 7:06:46 GMT -6
Thanks for all suggestions! Yesterday I had a great battle as Italy vs France. Our battlelines met in the night, though with generally good visibility. After a frantic turning, firing and torping french lost BC and 3CA mostly to gunfire, and BB to flashfire. I got many ships damaged, with one B hiting mine and at least two ships torped, but in the end, only lost my only BB, a hero of this battle, to a small leak (7pts, leftover from large leak from torpedo hit) not far from Genoa. The problem is when i decided to break contact a group of 3 CAs started circling around some random point and i had to return to them, what probably costed me my BB. It seems they got sepatrated from the flagship (scout force, i think) and there was nothing i could do to recall them, as all buttons were greyed out, so i couldnt even attach them to other, closer flagship. Is there sth i could do in such situation? I believe and others can correct me if I'm wrong that when a group of ships go out of sight of their flagship then they revert to AI, independent control. The only way to get them back in the fold is for their original flagship (because that is their chain of command) to make visual contact again. This is probably also dependent on what level of control you are playing at (Admiral, VADM, Captain) |
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Post by jwsmith26 on Sept 2, 2016 9:37:35 GMT -6
It's certainly possible bcoopactual is correct because the reasons for this behavior are not readily apparent, but in my experience when the controls are grayed out this is often the result of a "lost contact" event or a "signalling error" event. The affected ships accept no orders until they recover. This can even happen when the affected ships are quite close to the flagship - they just wander off on some unknown personal mission and you can't do a thing about it until they recover. These events become less frequent over time. Investing in Fleet Tactics will also eventually reduce the risk of this happening.
However, the majority of ships that have not suffered from this event (do not have their controls grayed out) can be out of sight of the flagship yet still find a way to make their way back to the flagship eventually. You can see this easily when you speed up the action - you'll see most of the apparently lost ships start to converge on the flagship. Typically a few ships just seem completely lost and continue to wander around on their own. You can sometimes tweak such ships to return to the fold by examining their orders and making sure they are subordinate to a division that is under control and then changing their orders to screen or core for that division. Both of those orders require the ships to move close their commanding ship. Sometimes the ships are stubborn and largely ignore the new orders but when they do obey you'll see the ships in the lost division turn back toward the main force (maybe not immediately) to try to execute the new orders.
I should also mention that my experience is playing at Rear Admiral level. As bcoopactual mentions, it could be different at the other levels.
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Post by Bullethead on Sept 2, 2016 11:47:11 GMT -6
For best torpedo use I find I need my DDs to get ahead of the intended target and fire back at them. This. In general, during WW1 most torpedoes weren't all that much faster than healthy warships at battle speeds. Thus, the launching ship had to be a fair distance ahead of the target to have any chance of the torps even getting to such a target. From the POV of such a target, the launching ship would usually be somewhere in the region of 30-60^ off the bow. This is why during this time, BB secondary armament shifted from being evenly distributed along the length of the ship to being massed up front to fire on forward bearings. This is most clearly seen in RN dreadnoughts, where they even stared putting secondary guns on 2 decks up front in the later designs. Because of the geometry of torpedo trajectories, enemy DDs were really only dangerous when off the bow. The geometry of torpedo trajectories also had implications for fleet deployment. To be of any real use, either to attack the enemy fleet or to defend against an enemy DD attack, the friendly destroyers had to be stationed ahead of the BB line. If you DDs are behind your own line, then they'll probably be behind the enemy line as well, not in a position from which to launch an attack in a timely manner. |
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Post by jwsmith26 on Sept 2, 2016 12:44:54 GMT -6
The thing you definitely do not want to do with destroyers is attempt to attack from behind capital ships. It's very tempting to try and run down fleeing battleships with your faster destroyers, but I have learned from hard experience that the most likely result is a bunch of sinking DDs when you try this. Doing this gives the secondary and tertiary guns of the battleship plenty of time to mow down the destroyers, especially if they are coming into range one after another in line ahead formation.
What I try to do is get into a position where I can throw several divisions of destroyers at the enemy line at once. There's safety in numbers, but there will be losses. This is while playing in rear admiral mode, so I can order the divisions in to attack. This is hard to do in Admiral mode unless your destroyer admiral is feeling particularly cooperative that day. The objective is to push the destroyers right into the depth of the main enemy. The usual response from the enemy line is complete chaos as all the big ships try to turn away from the destroyers scattering into a complete jumble of sharply turning ships. I then turn the destroyer divisions over to the AI and make sure "Flotilla attack" is enabled. I'm not sure if ordering a flotilla attack helps much in rear admiral mode but every little bit helps. Once the destroyers are embedded in the enemy line it doesn't really matter how accurate their torpedo attack is, if they don't hit their target the torp will possibly hit that battleship that is wildly turning behind the target ship. With so many available targets all turning randomly, even inept early torpedo attacks are likely to hit something. And truthfully, early tertiary and secondary gunnery is just as inept as early torpedo attacks so a surprising number of my destroyers that are within a few hundred yards of dozens of enemy ships somehow manage to extract themselves from the melee and limp back to port. Its great fun when I can pull this off successfully.
It is a bit ironic that early torpedoes are absolutely devastating when they actually hit but it's almost impossible to actually to get a DD to fire one and even rarer to get a hit, while later DDs spray torpedoes like machine gun fire but when they hit they do less damage. That's not because the torpedoes are weaker (they're actually stronger) but rather because torpedo protection and damage control have improved more than torpedoes.
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