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Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 27, 2019 16:27:29 GMT -6
Just think of all the parts that were lying around though, it would have been Jackie Fisher's flea-market dream!
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Post by dorn on Mar 29, 2019 7:46:51 GMT -6
And the invasions are told to be seldom .....
Playing as UK.
5/1911 - Declaration of war between UK and USA. 5/1911 – Taking advantage of our weakness in North American East Coast, US troops have invaded our possession Bermuda 5/1911 – Taking advantage of our weakness in the Caribbean, US troops have invaded our possession Puerto Rico
Bad news continue .... 5/1911 - Our scientists report they have hit a dead end in their efforts to figure out the concept of Director firing
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Post by aeson on Apr 1, 2019 15:31:40 GMT -6
Well, I suppose that went about as well as could be expected, with nine of my old Barry-class torpedo boats up against an eclectic mix of five mostly-larger and universally more heavily gunned French destroyers... Wait, how did Aspirant Herber take heavy damage without taking any hits? I don't remember any collisions, and the only end-of-battle event was one of the two destroyers of mine that actually survived the gunnery engagement getting torpedoed and sunk by a submarine while returning to port...
... 2" hits don't count?
Also, that came surprisingly close to a 2" gunnery kill on a 900t destroyer, and since Aspirant Herber got interned on the next turn, well, close enough.
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Post by noshurviverse on Apr 1, 2019 17:15:07 GMT -6
In one of my games, this is what Japan was building. In the 1920's.
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Post by aeson on Apr 1, 2019 17:21:29 GMT -6
I hope that thing has some very thick armor somewhere, because otherwise I have no clue what it's using its 44,100-ton displacement for.
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Post by dorn on Apr 2, 2019 0:57:40 GMT -6
Is this game with 100 % research? Could you post AI design file?
Even if ship has 18" turret armour, 5" deck armour, there would be still a lot of free tonnage left.
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Post by noshurviverse on Apr 2, 2019 1:46:55 GMT -6
Is this game with 100 % research? Could you post AI design file?
Even if ship has 18" turret armour, 5" deck armour, there would be still a lot of free tonnage left.
This game was from about a year ago, I've long since overwritten the save. I checked some chat logs from that same time period and I'm fairly sure that was a 50% tech speed game.
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Post by aeson on Apr 2, 2019 14:46:44 GMT -6
What's wrong with this picture? (Hint: Who's running from whom?)
In other news, the US Navy would like to offer its condolences to the Marine Nationale for its recent loss of a 12,800t 2x2x13"/Q-2 predreadnought battleship to a 6,000t 2x2x8"/Q0 light cruiser in a daytime gunnery engagement with 22kyd visibility when the battleship had Director fire control and crew quality 0 and the cruiser had Central Firing and crew quality 1 but was overdue for a refit. On the bright side, the surviving members of the battleship's crew will be enjoying a stay in Hawaii at the US government's expense until such time as they are moved to a more permanent prisoner of war camp or can be exchanged for American POWs held by the French government. Looking at the logs, it seems that Redoubtable essentially died a death of a thousand cuts. The last log entry is merely 'ship sinking;' the fires that burned on its decks almost continuously throughout the engagement never raged out of control, there's no mention of progressive flooding or even of high speed increasing flooding, the one conning tower hit was a 4" shell that failed to penetrate the armor, there were no bridge hits, and despite 10 hits penetrating the secondary battery armor - and one 8" hit destroying a main battery turret at under a thousand yards - the battleship never blew up.
Also, I'm not positive, but I think that's about as close as I've ever come to seeing a ship completely disarmed by battle damage. Half the main battery and every single secondary and tertiary battery gun was put out of action before it was sunk.
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Post by Adseria on Apr 2, 2019 18:13:20 GMT -6
What's wrong with this picture?
(Hint: Who's running from whom?)
In other news, the US Navy would like to offer its condolences to the Marine Nationale for its recent loss of a 12,800t 2x2x13"/Q-2 predreadnought battleship to a 6,000t 2x2x8"/Q0 light cruiser in a daytime gunnery engagement with 22kyd visibility when the battleship had Director fire control and crew quality 0 and the cruiser had Central Firing and crew quality 1 but was overdue for a refit. On the bright side, the surviving members of the battleship's crew will be enjoying a stay in Hawaii at the US government's expense until such time as they are moved to a more permanent prisoner of war camp or can be exchanged for American POWs held by the French government.
Looking at the logs, it seems that Redoubtable essentially died a death of a thousand cuts. The last log entry is merely 'ship sinking;' the fires that burned on its decks almost continuously throughout the engagement never raged out of control, there's no mention of progressive flooding or even of high speed increasing flooding, the one conning tower hit was a 4" shell that failed to penetrate the armor, there were no bridge hits, and despite 10 hits penetrating the secondary battery armor - and one 8" hit destroying a main battery turret at under a thousand yards - the battleship never blew up.
Also, I'm not positive, but I think that's about as close as I've ever come to seeing a ship completely disarmed by battle damage. Half the main battery and every single secondary and tertiary battery gun was put out of action before it was sunk.
To be fair, a light cruiser that's willing to move towards a battleship almost certainly has either A) torpedoes, or B) big friends. In either case, not something a lone pre-dreadnought wants to fight. Doesn't explain why it lost the gunnery duel, but it might at least go some way towards explaining why it was running away. Plus, he had bigger guns and better directors; never give up the range advantage, right?
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Post by grannysmith on Apr 10, 2019 9:14:21 GMT -6
Don't know if anyone has posted a similar story, haven't been through all 72 pages yet... ^^ I am always late with BCs, focus on good light combatants and battleships as I don't have much luck with BCs somehow (historical I guess). But in the 1930s as Japan I decide to build the battlecruisers to end all battlecruisers. Named the first one the 'Banzai'. Powerful ships, 52k tons, speed 33 (found to be faster than design during trials), 16 16' guns in 4 quadruple turrets. Build 4 of them, three complete normally, one month before last one completes I refuse to make commitments concerning a disarmament treaty, not good enough they still reach agreement, ship too big, gets scrapped. I'm pissed. Not as much as Russia apparently because they blow up the second Banzai class BC in port. War it is. 2nd Month of the war 3rd Banzai class gets sunk by submarines offscreen. I am now both pissed and sad. Cruiser engagement. The Banzai herself engages an older 33k ton BC. We exchange two or three salvoes - Flash fire leads to the end of the Banzai class. Spent a considerable amount of cash on those 4 Battlecruisers and they never even damaged a single enemy ship. In the end the russians paid as I wittled away their smaller ships with massively superior CLs and in the end with no destroyers, CLs or BCs left they engage me with their 13 BBs. All get sunk. War ends with russia having one CA, a dozen minesweepers and a few subs. And I'm pretty sure I will remember the 'Banzai' class longer than any other class of ship
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Post by aeson on Apr 10, 2019 9:58:17 GMT -6
Sixteen 16" guns and a design speed of 32 knots is a lot to ask within the game, even on 52,000 tons, and I expect that it was very expensive and poorly armored as a result. If you're going to make glass cannons, I'd be inclined to make them a bit slower and a bit smaller to cut costs; practically speaking, a 52,000t 16x16" 32kn battlecruiser doesn't really have that much of an advantage over, say, a 45,000t 9x16" 28kn battlecruiser within the game - especially if the larger ship doesn't have enough armor on its turrets to protect them against heavy-caliber shellfire at any range - and a 45,000t 9x16" 28kn battlecruiser probably "only" costs in the ballpark of 160M while a 52,000t 16x16" 32kn battlecruiser probably exceeds 200M.
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Post by noshurviverse on Apr 10, 2019 10:55:03 GMT -6
16x16" is fairly extreme, albeit not to the insane level I went with the 32x18", 24x17" Why-class during a French campaign. Even so, armor gets to the rather strange point where you need very thick plates to be able to stop anything of a battleship caliber, but the weight required almost makes reverting to barely armored designs seem worthwhile. So you can get to the situation of "Yeah, I could reduce the armament in order to have a foot of armor, but will that actually stop anything?" Just another challenge of the time period.
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Post by klavohunter on Apr 11, 2019 22:01:13 GMT -6
I hope that thing has some very thick armor somewhere, because otherwise I have no clue what it's using its 44,100-ton displacement for. I'm almost certain it's got to be in the secondary guns' armor.
The AI has a sick fetish for piling armor onto those, I've seen it before on a few AI ships that seemed to 'waste tonnage' on something other than speed armor or firepower.
The 28 knot speed on that thing is pretty impressive, and is probably where a good chunk of that tonnage is going.
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Post by Adseria on Apr 12, 2019 9:54:10 GMT -6
16x16" is fairly extreme, albeit not to the insane level I went with the 32x18", 24x17" Why-class during a French campaign. Even so, armor gets to the rather strange point where you need very thick plates to be able to stop anything of a battleship caliber, but the weight required almost makes reverting to barely armored designs seem worthwhile. So you can get to the situation of "Yeah, I could reduce the armament in order to have a foot of armor, but will that actually stop anything?" Just another challenge of the time period. This was my conclusion in my last game; why bother having armour anyway? At one point, I thought of trying the opposite extreme; 11" guns can still technically penetrate 18" of belt armour at point blank range, and the AI never gives it's ships very good deck armour anyway, so why not just have a ship with the best possible armour (say, 18" belt, 6" deck) and maximum speed, and then as many 11" guns as I could fit in the remaining space? Then I realised that there was no point giving it armour that it could penetrate with it's own pop-guns, so I changed my strategy and designed the Inflexible-class.
52000t, 16x15" main battery, 24x6" secondary battery, 32kts, but only 10" belt and 3" deck. There were 2 ships in the class; they both served with distinction through several major battles (mostly as part of a scouting force for the main fleet; however, I'm probably more cautious than I should be, so, in many cases, the scouting force may as well have been operating alone), before Incomparable was sunk by a large force of French battlecruisers off the Isle of Wight. Inflexible survived until 1950, having fought numerous battles and sunk a large amount of enemy shipping.
However, the Inflexible-class were not the last battlecruiser class to enter service with the Royal Navy before 1950; they were followed by the 2-ship Illustrious-class.
The Illustrious-class was very similar to the preceding Inflexible-class, but with some significant differences; she sacrificed a quarter of her primary firepower for slightly increased armour (up to 12" vs 10" belt, and 3 1/2" vs 3" deck). The 2 ships of the class did not engage in many battles, but their performance was satisfactory, and neither was lost to enemy action. Both ships remained in active service until 1950, as did the surviving Inflexible-class and one older battlecruiser of the Indefatigable-class.
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Post by aeson on Apr 26, 2019 9:22:49 GMT -6
For all that it's a pretty solid victory, an amusingly-disappointing surprise attack: Three battleships sunk, but one (Imperator Aleksandr II) I don't much care about, another (Imperator Nikolai I) will be recovered since it sank in port, and a fourth (Tsesarevich) survived with only moderate damage despite running parallel to my battle line after daybreak from Port Arthur up to Dalny and then milling about in a bay while my battleships fired in its general direction until the scenario ended. A light cruiser (Voevoda) and a destroyer (Verni) are also going to be recovered.
Still, my destroyers scored at least 16 hits (including one dud that I know of, which isn't counted on the statistics tables) out of 31 torpedo launches, which isn't too bad with only level 4 torpedo technology (2kyd@28kn / 4kyd@18kn) and no torpedo training even though they were mostly shooting at stationary targets.
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