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Post by Antediluvian Monster on May 11, 2019 4:31:55 GMT -6
The phrase "seacoast artillery" is also a bit telling how much significance it has regarding Tsushima. They were literally placed *on* Tsu-shima, IIRC. (though not on the Battle of)
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Post by akosjaccik on May 11, 2019 4:37:22 GMT -6
They were literally placed *on* Tsu-shima, IIRC. (though not on the Battle of) The moment I get RtW2, I am going to design a pre-dread, name it "Battle of", equip it with 12" and totally rub it in your face for your insolence!
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Post by Antediluvian Monster on May 11, 2019 4:46:28 GMT -6
They were literally placed *on* Tsu-shima, IIRC. (though not on the Battle of) The moment I get RtW2, I am going to design a pre-dread, name it "Battle of", equip it with 12" and totally rub it in your face for your insolence! It's game then. Obviously I'll be fighting with the "Isle of"—the literal island of Tsu-shima—and with guns that can shoot at least twice a minute.
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Post by akosjaccik on May 11, 2019 4:52:42 GMT -6
It's game then. Obviously I'll be fighting with the "Isle of"—the literal island of Tsu-shima—and with guns that can shoot at least twice a minute. I wish you good luck then, fine Sir! I do feel obliged to inform you however that my commander is simply named "Noah."
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Post by christian on May 11, 2019 5:24:42 GMT -6
generally if the japanese only fired every 8-10 minutes from their 12 inchers something is very very wrong You have the data on the guns, the durations, the shells fired, you can do the math yourself as well. The trick is simply that you deleted the "in average" part. The rest of your post is interesting to me in that way that is basically says "Yes but other parameters were at play". Exactly. RtW is concerned about simulating the battles, not the datasheets. For example, "The post-war US survey of Japanese Seacoast Artillery states that these guns fired 2 rounds per gun per minute" - said report talks about the 12"/45, not the /40, and was written in 1946. The phrase "seacoast artillery" is also a bit telling how much significance it has regarding Tsushima.
the british battleships present at tsushima (the 5 of them) all had a 2x2 layout which means 4 barrels per ship of 12 inch guns considering the british had 80 rounds per gun for the 12 inch (its the exact same gun the british just sold it) i put the japanese ammo as the same that gives me 1600 rounds of 12 inch ammo 80 rpg "fired 446 shells with an excellent 9% hit ratio, and on average they fired a full broadside in every 8-10 minutes, using up ultimately 50-60% of their ammunition." in oder for this to be true each ship has to have been carrying 40 rounds per gun which is an insanely low number when in reality the japanese if the 1600 rounds ls is correct only fired 27.8% of their ammunition supply also did a bit of math on the reload time so lets say that a salvo flew from the 12 inch guns every 8 minutes this means it would take 10,7 HOURS to fire off 446 rounds 13.38 hours if it was every 10 minutes where as if the reload time was 0.5 rof it would take 2.676 hours and if the rof was 1 it would take 1.338 hours now onto the russians "firing at least 900 305mm shells and about 360 of the 254mm shells." it would take (taking their fastest rate of fire into account (one shell every 2.2 minutes) 2.7 hours to fire 900 shells and the russian ammunition capacity was around 2640 at top load but considering they had a training session off madagascar id wager they sat at 2000 or 1800 rounds now if we take the russians had a 3 minute loading time they would end up at 3.6 hours to fire 900 shells (with 11x4 barrels as all russian ships had 4 guns) to fire 360 rounds from their 254 mm guns of which they had 27 of and a rof of 0.5 (2 minutes) it would take them 1.6 hours to do so either the russians decided halfway through that firing 254s were for weaklings and switched to 305s or they ran out of ammo russians had in total 2160 rounds for their 254 guns lets say they fired 800 at the training thing thats 1360 rounds left ammo is not a problem firing position could be but the russians only had 2 cruisers with 254mm guns most of these 254 mm being on battleships
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Post by bcoopactual on May 11, 2019 7:38:26 GMT -6
An interesting conversation. I didn't see it mentioned but is it possible the gun/turret that took 20 minutes to fire mentioned in the OP was jammed or disabled? Sorry to ask the obvious question (and if it was addressed in the OP I apologize for missing it, I did make an effort to read the whole thing) but I just wanted to eliminate the possibility.
It's also my understanding that the game takes into account that sometimes a individual gun in a turret will miss a salvo due to a mechanical failure or a loading drill error that needs to be corrected. I don't think the log is updated for those individual problems just disabled/jammed messages for the mount as a whole.
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Post by christian on May 11, 2019 9:57:03 GMT -6
An interesting conversation. I didn't see it mentioned but is it possible the gun/turret that took 20 minutes to fire mentioned in the OP was jammed or disabled? Sorry to ask the obvious question (and if it was addressed in the OP I apologize for missing it, I did make an effort to read the whole thing) but I just wanted to eliminate the possibility. It's also my understanding that the game takes into account that sometimes a individual gun in a turret will miss a salvo due to a mechanical failure or a loading drill error that needs to be corrected. I don't think the log is updated for those individual problems just disabled/jammed messages for the mount as a whole. that is possible especially due to some of the extremely low numbers i have encountered although even with all guns up i cant get close to the rof cap which is on the ships although from personal experience more guns taken out dosent mean the rof is lower (it dosent state that anywhere either) and thus leads me to believe the rof counter only takes the average of either the best gun or all guns which can actually fire also had a cruiser getting decent rof with its 5 inchers at 2 rounds per minute also its to be noted im well into the 1935s now Attachments:
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Post by janxol on May 11, 2019 10:32:11 GMT -6
Is there a way i can see base ROF for various caliber guns without building a ship with one and taking it into combat? Some sort of sheet or something?
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Post by christian on May 11, 2019 15:16:15 GMT -6
Is there a way i can see base ROF for various caliber guns without building a ship with one and taking it into combat? Some sort of sheet or something? havent been able to myself which is why all my screenshots are of in game it would be REALLY nice to have a feature where i could see rof in game
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Post by bcoopactual on May 11, 2019 18:43:09 GMT -6
There is a ROF column in the Gun Data file in the Data folder. I don't know what the units are but it might be taken as a ratio, i.e. a certain number of rounds fired compared to so many rounds in the same time period for the other caliber.
I don't know if that file is even used by the game though so it may be irrelevant. Some of the base files were ported over from Steam and Iron but not used since Rule the Waves has a tech tree progression instead of assigning values based on nation and year in SaI.
Base ROF is a pretty meaningless stat though. A particular caliber gun's rate of fire is modified by the nation's Turret's and Gun Mountings tech level, then there are a myriad of situational modifiers including the ones listed in the OP but additional ones as well such as putting too large of a gun on too small of a hull (seen most often with DD and MS).
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Post by christian on May 12, 2019 6:57:57 GMT -6
There is a ROF column in the Gun Data file in the Data folder. I don't know what the units are but it might be taken as a ratio, i.e. a certain number of rounds fired compared to so many rounds in the same time period for the other caliber. I don't know if that file is even used by the game though so it may be irrelevant. Some of the base files were ported over from Steam and Iron but not used since Rule the Waves has a tech tree progression instead of assigning values based on nation and year in SaI. Base ROF is a pretty meaningless stat though. A particular caliber gun's rate of fire is modified by the nation's Turret's and Gun Mountings tech level, then there are a myriad of situational modifiers including the ones listed in the OP but additional ones as well such as putting too large of a gun on too small of a hull (seen most often with DD and MS). yeah i was thinking the tab would give you the final maximum rof (maximum achieveable rof) after its taken mounting things into consideration and rof penalties and tech levels and all that also yeah the file is pure giberish it has a reload but we have no idea what those numbers mean
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Post by aeson on May 12, 2019 7:24:15 GMT -6
yeah i was thinking the tab would give you the final maximum rof (maximum achieveable rof) after its taken mounting things into consideration and rof penalties and tech levels and all that also yeah the file is pure giberish it has a reload but we have no idea what those numbers mean Given the magnitudes of the ROF values, I would think that the units are something like shells fired per five minutes, or possibly per about eight to ten minutes if it's an expected rather than a maximum value.
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