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Post by Sven on May 14, 2019 5:58:14 GMT -6
I guess the answer to this question is buried somewhere in this forum, but anyway
How is the Versailles Treaty implemented?
Guess you will not have much to do as the german admiral during the first game years, or? |
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saden
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Post by saden on May 14, 2019 6:24:53 GMT -6
I suppose it's implemented in the same manner in which treaties were handled in RTW 1. You can't build ships over X tonnage or with bigger than X guns.
Might be a bit of an incentive to construct CVs, now that I think of it.
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Post by bcoopactual on May 14, 2019 6:38:52 GMT -6
I suppose it's implemented in the same manner in which treaties were handled in RTW 1. You can't build ships over X tonnage or with bigger than X guns. Might be a bit of an incentive to construct CVs, now that I think of it. Article 198 of the Versaille Treaty forbade Germany from having any military or naval air forces. Article 181 specified that the Germans were allowed to have only 6 pre-dreadnoughts, 6 light cruisers, 12 destroyers and 12 torpedo boats. Submarines were specifically forbidden. I didn't see aircraft carriers mentioned by name but if you can't have naval air forces I can't see justifying building a naval vessel with a big flat deck and a hangar. Replacement armored ships were limited to 10,000 tons, light cruisers to 6,000 tons. While I doubt the in-game treaty limits are as specific as the historic treaty it would be interesting to start from that big of a handicap. Not sure I'd want to do it though. |
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Post by christian on May 14, 2019 6:48:36 GMT -6
I suppose it's implemented in the same manner in which treaties were handled in RTW 1. You can't build ships over X tonnage or with bigger than X guns. Might be a bit of an incentive to construct CVs, now that I think of it. Article 198 of the Versaille Treaty forbade Germany from having any military or naval air forces. Article 181 specified that the Germans were allowed to have only 6 pre-dreadnoughts, 6 light cruisers, 12 destroyers and 12 torpedo boats. Submarines were specifically forbidden. I didn't see aircraft carriers mentioned by name but if you can't have naval air forces I can't see justifying building a naval vessel with a big flat deck and a hangar. Replacement armored ships were limited to 10,000 tons, light cruisers to 6,000 tons. While I doubt the in-game treaty limits are as specific as the historic treaty it would be interesting to start from that big of a handicap. Not sure I'd want to do it though. carriers under the treaty as far as i know were 100% legal although i can gaurantee for sure that france and britain wont be pleased when you suddenly start a giant aviation buisness building up your air arm and 5 carriers lay on the slipways also yeah you cant have naval air forces but as long as you have no carrier capable planes your good so once you get close to war just start cranking out torpedo bombers |
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Post by dorn on May 14, 2019 6:56:51 GMT -6
Article 198 of the Versaille Treaty forbade Germany from having any military or naval air forces. Article 181 specified that the Germans were allowed to have only 6 pre-dreadnoughts, 6 light cruisers, 12 destroyers and 12 torpedo boats. Submarines were specifically forbidden. I didn't see aircraft carriers mentioned by name but if you can't have naval air forces I can't see justifying building a naval vessel with a big flat deck and a hangar. Replacement armored ships were limited to 10,000 tons, light cruisers to 6,000 tons. While I doubt the in-game treaty limits are as specific as the historic treaty it would be interesting to start from that big of a handicap. Not sure I'd want to do it though. carriers under the treaty as far as i know were 100% legal although i can gaurantee for sure that france and britain wont be pleased when you suddenly start a giant aviation buisness building up your air arm and 5 carriers lay on the slipways also yeah you cant have naval air forces but as long as you have no carrier capable planes your good so once you get close to war just start cranking out torpedo bombers German economy after WW1 was at very bad shape and has no economic power to start building large expensive navy.
Later Germany start bulding aircraft carriers (Graf Zeppelin) however Germany has no experience of naval aviation and it would be very visible. Just look at their only carrier they start building. For that tonnage it was nothing impressive.
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Post by wknehring on May 14, 2019 7:06:36 GMT -6
This could be a selfrestricting "house rule"  |
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Post by christian on May 14, 2019 8:03:16 GMT -6
carriers under the treaty as far as i know were 100% legal although i can gaurantee for sure that france and britain wont be pleased when you suddenly start a giant aviation buisness building up your air arm and 5 carriers lay on the slipways also yeah you cant have naval air forces but as long as you have no carrier capable planes your good so once you get close to war just start cranking out torpedo bombers German economy after WW1 was at very bad shape and has no economic power to start building large expensive navy.
Later Germany start bulding aircraft carriers (Graf Zeppelin) however Germany has no experience of naval aviation and it would be very visible. Just look at their only carrier they start building. For that tonnage it was nothing impressive.
yeah i was thinking more 1936 onwards also considering germany got off about 4 battleships and an almost complete carrier i would put my money on them being able to pump out 5 carriers if they focused more on the navy and maybe 1 or 2 battleships on top |
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Post by Antediluvian Monster on May 14, 2019 8:47:17 GMT -6
I don't think that many carriers are allowed by AGNA. About 40-48,000 tons of carrier tonnage is the best they could have asked for, and the latter one is including Ark Royal (the German carrier tonnage being pegged to 35% of British one).
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Post by dorn on May 14, 2019 9:08:04 GMT -6
German economy after WW1 was at very bad shape and has no economic power to start building large expensive navy.
Later Germany start bulding aircraft carriers (Graf Zeppelin) however Germany has no experience of naval aviation and it would be very visible. Just look at their only carrier they start building. For that tonnage it was nothing impressive.
yeah i was thinking more 1936 onwards also considering germany got off about 4 battleships and an almost complete carrier i would put my money on them being able to pump out 5 carriers if they focused more on the navy and maybe 1 or 2 battleships on top It is pitty they did not, war could be shorter. |
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Post by Sven on May 14, 2019 10:24:11 GMT -6
I know there is a Washington treaty option if you start in 1920.
Well we will see in a few days, won’t we?
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Post by christian on May 14, 2019 10:31:06 GMT -6
yeah i was thinking more 1936 onwards also considering germany got off about 4 battleships and an almost complete carrier i would put my money on them being able to pump out 5 carriers if they focused more on the navy and maybe 1 or 2 battleships on top It is pitty they did not, war could be shorter. depends on how you look at it carriers would be better for fleet action while what they did was a heavy raider fleet |
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Post by rob06waves2018 on May 14, 2019 11:16:37 GMT -6
It is pitty they did not, war could be shorter. depends on how you look at it carriers would be better for fleet action while what they did was a heavy raider fleet I think possibly the U-boat menace may have been greater if the Germans had any air power out of range of France. However, given the British blockade, the only ships that could get out were big, heavy raiders. An aircraft carrier would more than likely have been stuck in a fjord much like the Tirpiz waiting to be blown to kingdom come. In the unlikely event that one was already out in the Atlantic when the war began, I envisage a similar outcome to that of the Graf Spee. No German vessel could operate for long without a base and the Germans had none. |
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Post by christian on May 14, 2019 11:35:59 GMT -6
depends on how you look at it carriers would be better for fleet action while what they did was a heavy raider fleet I think possibly the U-boat menace may have been greater if the Germans had any air power out of range of France. However, given the British blockade, the only ships that could get out were big, heavy raiders. An aircraft carrier would more than likely have been stuck in a fjord much like the Tirpiz waiting to be blown to kingdom come. In the unlikely event that one was already out in the Atlantic when the war began, I envisage a similar outcome to that of the Graf Spee. No German vessel could operate for long without a base and the Germans had none. the good thing with carriers is they have airdefence up which allows them to attack the bombers for better defence but yes carriers are better suited for amassed action a fleet of 4-5 graf spees and 2 capital ships could basically nuke strike any british fleet unless the british had even more ships/carriers its also worth nothing british carriers had GARBAGE carrying capacity |
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Post by noshurviverse on May 14, 2019 11:51:31 GMT -6
We've seen this screenshot, but it may be out of date. Attachments:
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Post by dorn on May 14, 2019 11:58:16 GMT -6
It is pitty they did not, war could be shorter. depends on how you look at it carriers would be better for fleet action while what they did was a heavy raider fleet This was not possible for Germany build so much carriers. They cannot even build one. Even if they focus on surface fleet they cannot outproduced UK and they need resources from somewhere, so there would be in no possition streamroll Poland and France. And they carriers would be ineffective. Much larger Graf Zeppelin was worse than Ark Royal and German Navy lacks experience which is not something easy to gain. And their issue is same with large capital ship, without support they cannot do much damage. Last thing is that North sea and North Atlantic is not well suited for carrier warfare like Pacific. Germany has nothing like UK fighter direction. There are a lot of other things Germany lacks. |
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