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Post by cogsandspigots on May 15, 2019 7:06:43 GMT -6
I like the idea of being saddled with ships that you’d really rather not have, but I just wish the logic would be improved. Great Britain does not need cramped, short range ships. Dreadnoughts shouldn’t come before pre-dreadnoughts. Size, speed, and firepower should follow an upward trend by year, not a completely random number.
I’m ok with having crappy ships, I just want them to make sense.
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Post by akosjaccik on May 15, 2019 7:09:51 GMT -6
I have no strong interet in the issue as I'd go with legacy fleet in 1900 as well just as I'd go in 1920, as it feels more... "authentic" for me, but I support other people's right to play however they please in a singleplayer game, so I'm all in for making this a selectable option. The more ways the players can tailor their own experience, the merrier.
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Post by fleet5 on May 15, 2019 7:21:19 GMT -6
Oh yeah, you can't rebuild short range capitals for normal range. Get ready to scrap a lot of stuff!
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Post by dougphresh on May 15, 2019 7:25:29 GMT -6
I agree in principle but as others have said, the specifics need work. I’m seeing far too many short range, cramped ships.
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Post by Sven on May 15, 2019 7:34:07 GMT -6
Regarding the fact that you start almost broke, at least as Great Britain, you can probably scrap about 50% of your fleet. Even the AI scraps a number of vessels.
The pre-dreadnoughts and old armored cruisers can most certainly be scrapped. Regarding all other ship types, some designs are useless in the long run. Basically, you need to decide what you want to keep, and live with a much smaller navy, just like historically.
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Post by dorn on May 15, 2019 7:46:35 GMT -6
Regarding the fact that you start almost broke, at least as Great Britain, you can probably scrap about 50% of your fleet. Even the AI scraps a number of vessels. The pre-dreadnoughts and old armored cruisers can most certainly be scrapped. Regarding all other ship types, some designs are useless in the long run. Basically, you need to decide what you want to keep, and live with a much smaller navy, just like historically. It is true, however I decided to scrap all capital ships with max. 12" guns, all protected cruisers and armoured cruisers and what was left was almost nothing. No battlecruisers, some battleships, cruisers just enough to fill with help 2 battleships foreign stations. But mainly there were almost no modern capital ship - I think just about six capital ships with guns 13" and larger.
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Post by hmssophia on May 15, 2019 7:48:41 GMT -6
I quite like the legacy pre-dreads. Perfect fodder for an early carrier fleet.
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Post by fleet5 on May 15, 2019 8:05:29 GMT -6
Regarding the fact that you start almost broke, at least as Great Britain, you can probably scrap about 50% of your fleet. Even the AI scraps a number of vessels. The pre-dreadnoughts and old armored cruisers can most certainly be scrapped. Regarding all other ship types, some designs are useless in the long run. Basically, you need to decide what you want to keep, and live with a much smaller navy, just like historically. I never scrap big enough CAs since they make for a good CVL conversion.
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Post by dorn on May 15, 2019 8:46:27 GMT -6
Regarding the fact that you start almost broke, at least as Great Britain, you can probably scrap about 50% of your fleet. Even the AI scraps a number of vessels. The pre-dreadnoughts and old armored cruisers can most certainly be scrapped. Regarding all other ship types, some designs are useless in the long run. Basically, you need to decide what you want to keep, and live with a much smaller navy, just like historically. I never scrap big enough CAs since they make for a good CVL conversion. Issue is that aircraft are really impotent at 20s. So it is good to have some CVLs but not too much.
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Post by elouda on May 15, 2019 9:22:28 GMT -6
When you actually get multiple 20+ aircraft CVLs in a battle, they are far from impotent. I think the best result I've had so far was something like 4 BB + 2 BC sunk by planes in a fleet battle in 1922/23.
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Post by archelaos on May 15, 2019 9:44:47 GMT -6
The more I look into designs generated for legacy fleet, the more they feel randomly generated without any sense and logic into it. DDs armed in 4in guns with 80rpg, with director, but no FC positions (or multiple ones). Capital ship designs from 1908-ish supposedly built in 1916, and thus completely inadequate for the time period. Almost all capital ships cramped and short ranged (in fact, amount of cramped, short range ships is really surprising). DDs overweight by over 10%, ship speed 2-4 knots over or under design
For example, a Japanese 1916 BB
Or 900t DD overweight by 73 tons, while carrying just 100rpg for their 4inchers
On the other hand, in another game, you can get some very nice designs where almost all BBs, BCs and cruisers are capable of long service (but on the other hand all DDs are short ranged and cramped).
IMHO the algorithm producing designs for 1920 start still needs a lot of work. Maybe, for the time being, replace it with few history-based scripted templates producing reasonable ships and designs.
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Post by dougphresh on May 15, 2019 9:54:13 GMT -6
Agreed. I’m not saying go find a Janes Fighting Ships from 1920 and copy-paste, but there must be some sort of compromise.
Why do I have a short ranged, cramped, DD with torpedos, mines, etc in a 1000t hull it can’t fit in?
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Post by williammiller on May 15, 2019 9:54:29 GMT -6
The more I look into designs generated for legacy fleet, the more they feel randomly generated without any sense and logic into it. DDs armed in 4in guns with 80rpg, with director, but no FC positions (or multiple ones). Capital ship designs from 1908-ish supposedly built in 1916, and thus completely inadequate for the time period. Almost all capital ships cramped and short ranged (in fact, amount of cramped, short range ships is really surprising). DDs overweight by over 10%, ship speed 2-4 knots over or under design
For example, a Japanese 1916 BB
Or 900t DD overweight by 73 tons, while carrying just 100rpg for their 4inchers
On the other hand, in another game, you can get some very nice designs where almost all BBs, BCs and cruisers are capable of long service (but on the other hand all DDs are short ranged and cramped).
IMHO the algorithm producing designs for 1920 start still needs a lot of work. Maybe, for the time being, replace it with few history-based scripted templates producing reasonable ships and designs.
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions archelaos !
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Post by dorn on May 15, 2019 11:43:08 GMT -6
Heureka, I remeber what I want to tell.
I think best way to go is that any next design for capital ships has some high probability to have at least same caliber of guns and large displacement. Or to have for each nation range of caliber which is used by date and can randomly change by 1-2 years.
That UK, Japan, USA has no cramped accomodation and short range. On opposite Italy has most of capital ships with short range. Something to have % of fleet with short range/cramped accomodation.
On opposite I cannot see long range at all. Could be done in same way as % for every nation with UK with no long range as having bases everywhere.
However I do not know how it is generated so it is difficult to give some suggestion.
Destroyers should have probably better basic designs and there is probably something bad in generating them overweight. And again I think next design should have at least same displacement.
Light cruisers seems to me quite good except short range and cramped accomodation.
Armoured cruisers seems to have a lot of ahistorical designs with 3 centerline turrets. I think it would be good to correct this. Otherwise they seems good.
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Post by dorn on May 15, 2019 11:52:21 GMT -6
Just something that I think about.
As right know a lot of capital ships are just totally obsolete, the reason for adding deck armour is minimal as they are just too much obsolote.
It could be seen between last ship active and ship in construction, there is really high quality difference, not just by 2-3 years.
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