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Post by yemo on May 14, 2019 15:00:53 GMT -6
1) Imho it would be nice if 4'' secondaries could be displayed on the ship graphic, since those played a major role in quite a few navies.
2) I just looked at Germany in 1920 with the Washington and the Versailles treaty options enabled (thus the "historical" variant).
And it seems like Germany can not build ships with 11inch guns in that scenario. So no Deutschland class, even though that was a key result of that historical treaty combination.
Historically, Germany could build heavy cruisers with 11'' guns (because they were limited by the Versailles treaty, but NOT by the Washington treaty).
Britain was restrained by the Washington Naval Treaty and thus could not answer with similarly gunned heavy cruisers, but realistically only with far more expensive battlecruisers.
IMho the ~10000 ton, 11'' Deutschland class was a key element in the interwar period and thus it should be possible to build such a class in the game when selecting the historical treaty options in combination.
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Post by warspite1995 on May 15, 2019 5:35:43 GMT -6
I wish it would designate ships like this as a CA - the way the battle maker works means that i never seem to hunt shipping in ships i have make like this in RTW1 and every other time it would get battles with other BC's which always outgun/armour it.
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Post by aeson on May 15, 2019 5:48:37 GMT -6
I wish it would designate ships like this as a CA - the way the battle maker works means that i never seem to hunt shipping in ships i have make like this in RTW1 and every other time it would get battles with other BC's which always outgun/armour it. It's possible to create a legal Deutshland-type CA: Works in Rule the Waves 1, too.
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Post by yemo on May 15, 2019 7:18:57 GMT -6
I wish it would designate ships like this as a CA - the way the battle maker works means that i never seem to hunt shipping in ships i have make like this in RTW1 and every other time it would get battles with other BC's which always outgun/armour it. It's possible to create a legal Deutshland-type CA:
Works in Rule the Waves 1, too.
Not with Washington and Versailles Treaty in place.
The problem is, that the Washington Treaty in game applies to germany (and thus the 8'' gun restriction), while historically it does not. It would be fine if we say that in-game treaties always apply to every nation (as in rtw1), but then Versailles, a treaty specifically for germany, does not make sense.
Either Germany is treated differently to reflect history in that instance, or it is not treated differently. Slashing the german fleet AND imposing the Washington treaty simply does not make sense.
The Deutschland class (10k tons AND 11'' guns) played a pivotal role in making Britain feel antagonized and is a direct result of Versailles (for Germany) and Washington (for the British). That is pretty disappointing as a 1920 "historical" game start.
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Post by Sven on May 15, 2019 7:25:48 GMT -6
Actually, if you hover over Germany, it says that the versailles treaty restricts Germany to building ships smaller than 12000 tons. furthermore, the productions of submarines is prohibited.
In game, the Washington treaty means that you are restricted to 10000 tons, 8 inch gun maximum
The Versailles treaty for germany restricts you to 12000 tons, no submarines allowed, apart from your navy starting with about 4 pre-dreadnoughts and a handful of light cruisers and destroyers. That is at least the information you can find in the almanac, when you play as Britain and take a look at germany. You are allowed to build planes though, so it is a little ahistorical.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 15, 2019 7:44:47 GMT -6
It's possible to create a legal Deutshland-type CA:
Works in Rule the Waves 1, too.
Not with Washington and Versailles Treaty in place.
The problem is, that the Washington Treaty in game applies to germany (and thus the 8'' gun restriction), while historically it does not. It would be fine if we say that in-game treaties always apply to every nation (as in rtw1), but then Versailles, a treaty specifically for germany, does not make sense.
Either Germany is treated differently to reflect history in that instance, or it is not treated differently. Slashing the german fleet AND imposing the Washington treaty simply does not make sense.
The Deutschland class (10k tons AND 11'' guns) played a pivotal role in making Britain feel antagonized and is a direct result of Versailles (for Germany) and Washington (for the British). That is pretty disappointing as a 1920 "historical" game start.
Yes, the problem is that both the Washington Treaty and The treaty of Versailles applies to Germany in game, while in reality Germany was outside the Washington treaty. |
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Post by aeson on May 15, 2019 7:56:00 GMT -6
It's possible to create a legal Deutshland-type CA:
Works in Rule the Waves 1, too.
Not with Washington and Versailles Treaty in place. I was replying to someone who wished that ships of the Deutschland type were designated as CAs within the game; they can be designed in such a way as to be so designated within the game. That they cannot be built while a treaty limiting you to 8" guns is in force is irrelevant.
Historically, none of the Deutschlands were laid down before 1929 and the designs weren't finalized until 1928 anyways, even though Germany could have begun replacing its predreadnought battleships earlier under the terms of the Treaty of Versailles (Preussen turned 20 in 1922-1923), and within the game Washington runs out by the end of 1929 unless you get a treaty extension and don't go to war for more than ten years. While having different treaty limitations for Britain and Germany would be more historically accurate, being unable to build 11" CAs for the ten years in which the game's version of the WNT is in force isn't exactly breaking historical verisimilitude - it's something that was only actually done at the tail end of those ten years anyways.
Also, if there's an exception for Germany, there technically also ought to be an exception for Russia - the Soviet Union was not a signatory to any of the major naval limitations treaties between the World Wars.
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Post by owe166 on May 15, 2019 8:04:40 GMT -6
Just to also mention. It seems like the washingtons treaties 8inch caliber restriction for crusiers is put across all class. I cant build BBs with acrual main batterys... so prehaps the devs should look into making gun restrictions per class and not overall.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 15, 2019 8:10:50 GMT -6
Just to also mention. It seems like the washingtons treaties 8inch caliber restriction for crusiers is put across all class. I cant build BBs with acrual main batterys... so prehaps the devs should look into making gun restrictions per class and not overall. The Washington treaty is somewhat simplified in the game. The limits apply to all types of ships. In practice, the Washington treaty did not allow for any heavier ships than 8 in cruisers to be built. |
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Post by Fredrik W on May 15, 2019 8:13:01 GMT -6
1) Imho it would be nice if 4'' secondaries could be displayed on the ship graphic, since those played a major role in quite a few navies.
2) I just looked at Germany in 1920 with the Washington and the Versailles treaty options enabled (thus the "historical" variant).
And it seems like Germany can not build ships with 11inch guns in that scenario. So no Deutschland class, even though that was a key result of that historical treaty combination.
Historically, Germany could build heavy cruisers with 11'' guns (because they were limited by the Versailles treaty, but NOT by the Washington treaty).
Britain was restrained by the Washington Naval Treaty and thus could not answer with similarly gunned heavy cruisers, but realistically only with far more expensive battlecruisers.
IMho the ~10000 ton, 11'' Deutschland class was a key element in the interwar period and thus it should be possible to build such a class in the game when selecting the historical treaty options in combination.
BTW you are not supposed to play Germany in the demo anyway. I suspect some doctoring has been going on, and in that case we cannot offer any support. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 8:35:10 GMT -6
1) Imho it would be nice if 4'' secondaries could be displayed on the ship graphic, since those played a major role in quite a few navies.
2) I just looked at Germany in 1920 with the Washington and the Versailles treaty options enabled (thus the "historical" variant).
And it seems like Germany can not build ships with 11inch guns in that scenario. So no Deutschland class, even though that was a key result of that historical treaty combination.
Historically, Germany could build heavy cruisers with 11'' guns (because they were limited by the Versailles treaty, but NOT by the Washington treaty).
Britain was restrained by the Washington Naval Treaty and thus could not answer with similarly gunned heavy cruisers, but realistically only with far more expensive battlecruisers.
IMho the ~10000 ton, 11'' Deutschland class was a key element in the interwar period and thus it should be possible to build such a class in the game when selecting the historical treaty options in combination.
BTW you are not supposed to play Germany in the demo anyway. I suspect some doctoring has been going on, and in that case we cannot offer any support. It seems that someone made a full version for himself xD I think it is a noob thing to do... But that does not change the fact that I would like to have Deutschland class as well... |
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Post by janxol on May 15, 2019 9:34:28 GMT -6
Is there a possibility of expanding the treaty system on per-class basis after release, similar how the Washington Trety did, or is that out of the realm of possibilities?
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pz501
New Member
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Post by pz501 on May 15, 2019 10:02:46 GMT -6
BTW you are not supposed to play Germany in the demo anyway. I suspect some doctoring has been going on, and in that case we cannot offer any support. It seems that someone made a full version for himself xD I think it is a noob thing to do... But that does not change the fact that I would like to have Deutschland class as well... Well at least it's a justification and vindication for the decision to adopt a DRM. Can't believe someone would hack/modify the exe (least it looks that way), and then post here complete with screenshots. |
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Post by elouda on May 15, 2019 10:07:21 GMT -6
More likely to be a case of fiddling with the save files rather than exe changes.
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Post by dougphresh on May 15, 2019 10:20:45 GMT -6
Sneaky sneaky sneaky
If someone can figure out how to make it forever 1925, I’d be happy. Technological advancement is always ruining my plans!
Great biplanes? What the f*ck is that monoplane flying at 400kph!?
Airships finally coming into their own? Medium bombers ruin everything!
War Plan Orange with a ship designer, I can life with that.
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