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Post by nutty31 on Dec 14, 2020 17:48:44 GMT -6
Well, just had this in an otherwise great battle in a war against Germany. (playing USA, 80% research rate, current year is 1943) It's annoying, but I can also see the funny side of it, so I'm posting it here. Here it is: Yep, one of my fleet carriers was sunk by not just a single bomb, but a dud.Dud somehow set a fire that eventually burned the ship down despite DC teams getting it down to severity level 1 twice. What's more, this battle went very badly for Germany, I won 625k points to 265k (on the right you can see a few of the losses Germany suffered), and the loss of this CV gave them 83k. That means that almost a third of Germany's points came from a single dud bomb. My only other losses were 3 DDs and 2 CAs, both of which were over 20 years old so not a big deal.
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Post by buttons on Dec 14, 2020 20:13:18 GMT -6
I am just imagining a comedy of errors and extreme laziness to cause the ship to burn down. "Okay we've got the fire mostly under control we can take it easy." "The fire is out of control again!" "Okay we've got the fire mostly under control we can take it easy." "The fire is out of control again!"
Later after being rescued from his lifeboat "Why did your ship burn out when you weren't even hit by a functioning bomb?" "Well these things happen sometimes, really nobody is at fault."
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Post by nutty31 on Dec 15, 2020 9:39:19 GMT -6
This wasn't an entirely isolated incident either, this was actually the second time this battle that one of my carriers was set on fire by a dud bomb. However, the other one managed to put the fire out and survived the battle with minimal damage, so I didn't think to mention it here. The carrier that survived by the way was about 8 years older than the Langley that was burned down by it's single dud bomb hit.
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Post by rs2excelsior on Dec 15, 2020 9:40:06 GMT -6
I too have lost a CV to a fire started by a single dud bomb. It’s still a heavy, fast object slamming through metal - lots of energy involved even if the bomb doesn’t go off.
Side note, this is why getting hit with planes readying on the carrier is a Bad Thing.
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Post by brygun on Dec 15, 2020 12:47:17 GMT -6
Well looks like the dud hit a fueled and armed airplane. One could also imagine the slow sizzle affect.
Whump Its okay its a dud Plane's broken wires spark near a pool of fuel Hey, whats that smoke? The plane is on fire! The plane's bombs are in the fire! BOOM, plane's bombs explode
The fuel truck next to the plane hit by the dud is on fire we got that fire under control a bit of fuel is on fire and spreads over to the next fuel line whooosh okay... new fire... we got that fire under control water pushes flaming oil into the ship's airplane fuel lines whoosh new fire
These sorts of chains did happen to real carriers. The Shinano coming out of harbor on its shake down cruise, crew still in training, IJN style damage control (specialists vs general as the nation has a lower tech density) and rots-of-ruck.
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Post by buttons on Dec 15, 2020 14:57:45 GMT -6
Playing as the CSA I've had the worst president ever when it comes to overall gameplay. It is only 1913 and in order to barely avoid being sacked I've been forced to build 36 cruisers and 20 submarines all while they slash my budget. To make matters worse I've already had to fight two unwinnable wars against the US in rapid succession with not even a year between them and barely escaping with a truce. It eventually reached the point where since clearly he wanted to micromanage the navy and didn't care about me building any dreadnoughts (I needed to keep scrapping them while under construction to build more cruisers) I tried to scrap the entire battleship fleet and when he refused to let me without a prestige hit I just did the roleplaying thing and resigned. While I could have edited the save file the game I just decided to restart after the two early wars completely ruined any possibility I had for a good budget.
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Post by rimbecano on Dec 15, 2020 19:57:25 GMT -6
Well, just had this in an otherwise great battle in a war against Germany. (playing USA, 80% research rate, current year is 1943) It's annoying, but I can also see the funny side of it, so I'm posting it here. Here it is: View AttachmentYep, one of my fleet carriers was sunk by not just a single bomb, but a dud.Dud somehow set a fire that eventually burned the ship down despite DC teams getting it down to severity level 1 twice. The real life Lexington had similar bad luck: the torpedo that killed her did go off, but didn't immediately set anything on fire. It did, however, cause some leakage of her avgas storage, and the fumes propagated until they reached an electrical room, which ignited them. This caused a chain reaction of explosions and fires which eventually made it necessary to abandon and scuttle the ship.
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Post by dia on Dec 15, 2020 20:33:41 GMT -6
I think it was explained once that reporting of dud bombs in the logs covers both truly dud bombs and partial detonations. So a dud bomb hit that starts a fire may actually be a partial detonation rather than a true dud. I could be remembering wrong though.
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Post by nimrod on Dec 18, 2020 23:30:59 GMT -6
I didn't realize my ally GB was doing so poorly! I wonder if the new chap will do any better?
Honestly this war with Italy has been weird. Lots of raider actions with one CL on my side facing 2 CAs (at least 5 of those engagements). Also had a convoy attack mission in which the Italian fleet (1 BC, 1 CA, 1 CL and about 11 DD) and all TRs was utterly destroyed, but it gave me a marginal victory due to losing a British BB, CL and DD and docked me some prestige as the Kaiser wasn't happy with the results a few turns back. Had another convoy attack mission with 3 DD's, and cleaned all but 3 of TRs but lost 2 DD and again had a marginal victory with prestige once again docked.
And now a leader has been sacked due to budget mismanagement... What wonders await the next turn? Only time will tell.
At least my 3 coal fired Bs (I guess technically BC now) seem to be doing good work with their SAM's.
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Post by aeson on Dec 19, 2020 10:30:40 GMT -6
And now a leader has been sacked due to budget mismanagement... What wonders await the next turn? Only time will tell. Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen that event.
Ignoring the in-game classification, I think I'd call Von der Tann more of an unusual CAG than either a predreadnought battleship or a battlecruiser - the armor is probably most appropriate against cruiser-grade armaments, the size isn't that inappropriate for a late-/post-WWII heavy cruiser or for plausible cruiser development in the absence of the Treaty system, and the main armament is very light for a '40s-'50s capital ship but is probably still fairly reasonable by cruiser standards (at least by weight-of-broadside, 4x12" is about equal to 9x9" or 7x10"), especially if you normally make space for missiles on CAs-turned-CAGs by removing main battery turrets.
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Post by nimrod on Dec 19, 2020 12:55:24 GMT -6
I was laughing a good 5 minutes on the sacked leader - so I had to share it. GB has been getting a lot of navy budget increases to keep pre-eminence (every two or three turns since the war with Italy started) and its looked like they have scrapped a number of capital ships as well - so something weird has been occurring with the Admiralty. No argument on the CAG classification, I threw them in as an example of just how wacky this war has been. 3 coal fired Bs upgraded to fight aircraft (which just barely existed when they were put down) with rocket powered SAM's which weren't even theorized in science fiction until years after their commissioning. The designers and builders must be proud, if they are still alive to see their modified creations. This war with Italy really feels like the U.S.A in the Korean War - its a "Come as you are" war. I wish I could properly attribute the quote, but for reference it is the sub title of and used throughout ahec.armywarcollege.edu/documents/U.S._Readiness.pdf. I'm actually building what I hope is going to be superior 32 knot diesel CAs with 2 SAMs and 10x10 guns, armor is heavier on the new CAs (immunity to 10" down to about 7,000-8000 yards) as well but they use magazine protection and AON. I almost lost a 16000 ton CA with that armor layout from about 12 hits from 5" or 6" to the BE / waterline and subsequent flooding from a raiding Italian light cruiser. So the jury is still out on if the new CA design has enough reserve buoyancy to stay in extended fire-fights with those dastardly quick firing guns.
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Post by director on Dec 19, 2020 17:05:12 GMT -6
I can't even speculate on how radar could work on a coal-fired ship... especially one burning soft German coal. Still, congratulations on winning the 'Steampunk' award!
Forgive me if you already know, but from reading your post ("its a "Come as you are" war. I wish I could properly attribute the quote") 'Come as you are' simply means you go with whatever you have on hand (or are wearing) at that moment. It can refer to a spontaneous, unprepared party - and as war is often darkly referred to as a party ('when the Widow brought the party') it is a war that you fight spur-of-the-moment with no buildup or preparations. As for who might have first used the term... Kipling is the source of the quote above, and if he was using it without explanation the meaning must have been clear to Victorian audiences.
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spacenerd4
Full Member
Appreciating our feline friends
Posts: 164
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Post by spacenerd4 on Dec 20, 2020 10:01:27 GMT -6
Another dud- this time accompanied by a full hit, but still:
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Post by nimrod on Dec 21, 2020 11:29:38 GMT -6
Forgive me if you already know, but from reading your post ("its a "Come as you are" war. I wish I could properly attribute the quote") 'Come as you are' simply means you go with whatever you have on hand (or are wearing) at that moment. It can refer to a spontaneous, unprepared party - and as war is often darkly referred to as a party ('when the Widow brought the party') it is a war that you fight spur-of-the-moment with no buildup or preparations. As for who might have first used the term... Kipling is the source of the quote above, and if he was using it without explanation the meaning must have been clear to Victorian audiences. Thanks - familiar with the concept but no need to forgive. Education and the reinforcement of knowledge is always appreciated!
I had thought that General Ridgeway or another noted individual (US Secretary of Defense in the late 50s or mid 60's) had stated that the Korean War was a "come as you are war / conflict". If there was some-one of note that applied the phrase to the Korean War, I would prefer to properly attribute it to them. I didn't think that attributing it to Kipling would be appropriate as he passed well before the war stated... I guess, the Korean War being a "come as you are" is in the common vernacular like Kleenex being applied to both nose tissue and a specific brand of tissue.
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Post by brygun on Dec 21, 2020 12:46:03 GMT -6
At least my 3 coal fired Bs (I guess technically BC now) seem to be doing good work with their SAM's. I still have found memories of my formation of Japanese coal fired 1899/1900 keels B converted into CVL flying strikes to smash a Russian navy in a surprise raid while those Russian's were obliged to chase sisters converted to be armed 16" armed for and aft turrets. I like to think that the rising columns of coal smoke were an aide to airplane navigation.
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