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Post by goodwood on May 29, 2019 10:21:00 GMT -6
I am playing Britain and I have got to 1938, but still no Dive bombers. What do I need to research for DBs?
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Post by rodentnavy on May 29, 2019 10:29:27 GMT -6
Naval Aviation, Heavier than Air
The exact tech is funnily enough called Dive Bombing. Do check your research details as it might be the case you already have this and need to request proposals for a dive bomber.
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Post by goodwood on May 29, 2019 11:01:00 GMT -6
Got it
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Post by wknehring on May 29, 2019 14:48:31 GMT -6
Well, you can play until 1944 with Germany and still don´t get Dive Bombers, while your Medium Bombers start to throw guided bombs. That´s a bit strange, because...well...Ernst Udet.
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Post by rodentnavy on May 29, 2019 14:57:34 GMT -6
Well, you can play until 1944 with Germany and still don´t get Dive Bombers, while your Medium Bombers start to throw guided bombs. That´s a bit strange, because...well...Ernst Udet. Seriously clicking on "Push Udet over the side" was the smartest move your admiral ever made
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Post by tortugapower on May 29, 2019 15:00:22 GMT -6
I imagine at some point Fredrik will tweak the rate of technology spread from one nation to another. Seeing that another nation has dive bombers is already enough to starting thinking "how do we do that". (Especially because of their potential for army use.)
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Post by cogsandspigots on May 29, 2019 15:13:47 GMT -6
I imagine at some point Fredrik will tweak the rate of technology spread from one nation to another. Seeing that another nation has dive bombers is already enough to starting thinking "how do we do that". (Especially because of their potential for army use.) I've had a lot of problems with being "locked out" of technologies.
I had a Japan game I had to abandon because I never had "main battery wing turrets" nor "x centerline turrets" fire, despite getting cross deck and superfiring turret techs. And this was without varied tech. As much of a challenge it sounds like, I really don't want to play the game without the ability to build BBs.
Edit: I was at 1915 without the ability to build BBs.
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Post by nuclearmoose on May 29, 2019 15:32:52 GMT -6
I imagine at some point Fredrik will tweak the rate of technology spread from one nation to another. Seeing that another nation has dive bombers is already enough to starting thinking "how do we do that". (Especially because of their potential for army use.) In my current Japan game i got a pop up saying something to the effect of "The British have started using wing turrets, why haven't we thought of that. Wing turrets unlocked". So it looks like its all ready in the game for some techs at least.
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Post by rodentnavy on May 29, 2019 15:34:21 GMT -6
I imagine at some point Fredrik will tweak the rate of technology spread from one nation to another. Seeing that another nation has dive bombers is already enough to starting thinking "how do we do that". (Especially because of their potential for army use.) In my current Japan game i got a pop up saying something to the effect of "The British have stated using wing turrets, why haven't we thought of that. Wing turrets unlocked". So it looks like its all ready in the game for some techs at least. That is a really cool way to do it. I like that
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Post by tortugapower on May 29, 2019 15:47:27 GMT -6
I imagine at some point Fredrik will tweak the rate of technology spread from one nation to another. Seeing that another nation has dive bombers is already enough to starting thinking "how do we do that". (Especially because of their potential for army use.) In my current Japan game i got a pop up saying something to the effect of "The British have started using wing turrets, why haven't we thought of that. Wing turrets unlocked". So it looks like its all ready in the game for some techs at least. Yes, I've had the same! I think that it's chance to occur should probably be a function of the number of years other nations have had the tech, as well as the number of other nations who have it. Based only on a single playthrough as Japan where I didn't get DiveBombers through the 30s, I imagine the spread is not modeled like this.
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Post by mycophobia on May 29, 2019 18:29:19 GMT -6
In my current Japan game i got a pop up saying something to the effect of "The British have started using wing turrets, why haven't we thought of that. Wing turrets unlocked". So it looks like its all ready in the game for some techs at least. Yes, I've had the same! I think that it's chance to occur should probably be a function of the number of years other nations have had the tech, as well as the number of other nations who have it. Based only on a single playthrough as Japan where I didn't get DiveBombers through the 30s, I imagine the spread is not modeled like this. I have not gotten dive bomber until late 30s in both game. Worth noting is that in one game I got tech only 3-4month after buying an Italian (my ally at the time) design. In my other game as French I got DB much later but I vaguely remember it was due to everyone else knowing it, tho I could’ve confused it with some other tech
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Post by jwsmith26 on May 29, 2019 18:57:24 GMT -6
It's not always a matter of what your scientists and designers can create. The British pretty much rejected dive bombers through the late 30s. Then they made a halfhearted stab at creating a couple of planes that could serve a dual role as a fighter and a dive bomber but were not great at either, with most such planes ending their careers as target tugs. But it wasn't that they created a bad dive bomber that largely deprived the British of dive bombers, it was more that they just didn't believe in the concept enough to put in the work required to make it effective. The same kind of thing happened with heavy bombers in Germany and Russia. Either nation could certainly design and produce heavy bombers and did build and operate a few. It wasn't a lack of discovering or developing the technology, rather it was policy decision at a very high level that prevented their extensive use. Of course, many will read that last line and respond: "Well, as far as I can tell, I'm at the highest level." But, of course you're not in RTW2. You can nudge the course of policy and scientific developments but you don't dictate them. Regardless of what you see being used against you, like your historical counterparts, you can't use tools that have been denied to you by the idiosyncrasies of scientific development or the convoluted minds of the policy makers.
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Post by tortugapower on May 29, 2019 21:52:46 GMT -6
It's not always a matter of what your scientists and designers can create. The British pretty much rejected dive bombers through the late 30s. Then they made a halfhearted stab at creating a couple of planes that could serve a dual role as a fighter and a dive bomber but were not great at either, with most such planes ending their careers as target tugs. But it wasn't that they created a bad dive bomber that largely deprived the British of dive bombers, it was more that they just didn't believe in the concept enough to put in the work required to make it effective. The same kind of thing happened with heavy bombers in Germany and Russia. Either nation could certainly design and produce heavy bombers and did build and operate a few. It wasn't a lack of discovering or developing the technology, rather it was policy decision at a very high level that prevented their extensive use. Of course, many will read that last line and respond: "Well, as far as I can tell, I'm at the highest level." But, of course you're not in RTW2. You can nudge the course of policy and scientific developments but you don't dictate them. Regardless of what you see being used against you, like your historical counterparts, you can't use tools that have been denied to you by the idiosyncrasies of scientific development or the convoluted minds of the policy makers. Thanks for the input. You took the words right out of my mouth with the second paragraph. I don't think we are the highest level, but wouldn't we likely have some say in the loadouts for carriers?
It's my impression that the person who is accepting bids from different contractors for the navy is the same person who would accept bids from different aircraft types, to try them out. I don't know though, I'm not that familiar with how these things worked especially in the time frame of interest.
Maybe, to fit the idea that some nations didn't take to a design, they could just randomly roll very terrible dive bombers (that seems to fit the British case). To say that nations can't even make them doesn't feel right to me.
Curious your thoughts on the matter.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 29, 2019 23:28:42 GMT -6
I just want to echo what John says above. Some nations just didn't adopt some roles for aircraft.
The intention in the game is that the player should have to work with what there is. I can understand that this can feel frustrating to the player though.
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Post by namuras on May 30, 2019 0:55:43 GMT -6
I just want to echo what John says above. Some nations just didn't adopt some roles for aircraft. The intention in the game is that the player should have to work with what there is. I can understand that this can feel frustrating to the player though. Sorry to ping you with this but i am on my 4th playthru.
First one was with US to get a feel, second one with germany and third and forth are with Japan. Every time the AI had TBs and DBs very early according to intel reports. While I had to wait until very late 1920s / early 1930s to get the first TBs on every playthru.
RNG is RNG, but man does it suck if you have nothing but fighters to put on your CVLs or CVs...
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