DD vs KE (which one for Trade Protection)

[warlock]

So I keep facing a dilemma as to use my older DDs for TP or build KEs.   The problem I am having is that the DDs seem to be better in every way.


First, I have to build 600 ton KEs unless it is during war and lets face it, if a war starts, I need the TP when it starts, not 10 months later when new KEs finally get built.   Second, if I want to maximize my ASW I have to now build KEs with 900 ton displacements however once they get this big, even maxing out DCs, K-guns and such, I seem to end up with 100s of tons of unused and no way to use it up due to messages about my KEs being overgunned, or too many centerline mounts or two many secondary mounts or two many AA mounts, speed faster than 24 knots, etc.  Basically the game just doesn't seem to allow me to mount enough equipment to a KE to use to tonnage I have available.

By contrast, I can use my just re-purpose my early game 500-900 ton DDs to trade protection and end up, through re-fits with as much or more ASW capability as a KE plus even the old DDs are faster than a KE and have a few torpedoes which gives them some teeth during a enemy coastal raid.  

I also don't see these older DDs being that much more expensive that KEs either.

So what am I missing here?  Why should I use a KE and how do you build them to be effective, cost efficient and useful at least when compared to re-purposing and re-fitting my older DDs to that purpose?
 

[deeznuts]

I just go with DD’s, KE seem entirely pointless(just like in RTW1 tbf since the weight of a single torpedo tube is basically nothing anyways

[brygun]

I use a policy of building KE with Minesweeping ability. This also seems to cut their ASW score in half or worse. It comes up as 2ms rather than 4 on a similiar build.

With KE = MS I can look on the map sea zones for a quick check of the minesweeping ability. That was a RTW1 habit. Their is other ways to get that info and mines seem less critical now.

Any KE under 600 tons, as in 500 tons or lighter, is wartime only and is scrubbed from your navy at the end of the war like a AMC is.

Once 900 or 1100 ton DDs are available I branch my DDs into two broad types. DDF for Fleet Destroyer meant to be in the big battles launching torpedo strikes and dying alot. That takes big size like 1100, 1500+ to fit 8-12 torps, very high speed to get close and guns a useful secondary item. The other grouping are DDS (Destroyer Small) or DD ASW for ~600 tons. These are aimed at minimal torps (though 3 is still common for an emergency spread), speed wont be as high meaning it cant close range as fast but it will have the mass using extra depth charges.

Start of war I go to the ships in service tab, sort by name of class, look for my DDS and DD ASW, and mass select them all to trade protection. These should also be spread around my sea zones with flags but Im not sure if that has a game affect.

Technically RTW2 only seperates the KER and DD by:
- Does it have at least one torpedo? If yes its a destroyer else its a corvette.
- Is a corvette 500 tons or less, if yes scrap it after a war.

[dorn]

I use KE as they will not mix with DD. However there is almost no difference for strategic point of view.

And as their speed is not important I always use coal which save some funds.

[rockmedic109]

How much cheaper is a KE to build and how much cheaper is the upkeep?

[southkraut]

Since TP depends primarily on the number of ships sent to do it, I built teensy tiny KEs and let them handle it. DDs are for fighting.

[namuras]

KE are cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain. Also they can be safely mothballed during peacetime.

Also building KE of 500 tns or less does not take 10 months, but rather 4. So it is viable to build small one during a war. Generally i keep around 36 - 48 around at all time later in the game.
They are mostly for ASW duties.
Also i do not really care about their armament. I just autodesign them and then specialize them for ASW or MS.

[swang]

my 1600 ton KE (2000 ton FS equivalent) is currently running at 18 maintenance, while my 1899 DDs (500 tons) are running at 15. to build, the DD takes 2020 total (10x202) and the KE takes 1740 (12x145).

The benefit of the KE is that it's not bound by the 95% usage requirements of the actual warships. Also, it's space prohibitive to put Foreign service modules or mine sweeping modules on early DDs.

Basically, their usage depends on the nation you're playing. The Brits can't live without KEs, and the Italians could care less.

[dorn]

Jun 4, 2019 22:36:05 GMT -6 rockmedic109 said:

How much cheaper is a KE to build and how much cheaper is the upkeep?

By torpedo tubes.

Just thinking about minimal destroyers. It could be most effective as they are not scrapped and would be probably cheaper to 600 tons corvettes.

[bidius]

Generally speaking I tend to design 2-3 different classes for DDs, one for short-range fleet engagements, one for long-range fleet engagements and one for trade protection. My KEs I design one 600 ton for minesweeping/TP, and another that's 1k ton colonial and primarily for anti-sub use and as a cheap alternative to having cruisers on foreign station, naturally I give them 2 inch belt armor so it can fight destroyers and reliably win, I've had 3 separate occasions where my KEs have sunk an entire enemy convoy, proof enough for me that belt armor works.

[southkraut]

Forgot to mention it earlier, but I also build by KEs for minesweeping, my DDs for anti-sub warfare and my CLs for minelaying. Perhaps not the perfect distribution of tasks, but that minimizes the micromanagement load.

[zardoz]

I build 300t DDs with one torpedo tube and with 2o kn, mine sweeping gear, additional dc storage and a few mines and mothball them in peace time. For ASW not ideal because K-guns cannot be used. But I have a core of MS/ASW units and fill that up with corvettes.

[warlock]

Jun 5, 2019 1:30:53 GMT -6 namuras said:

KE are cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain. Also they can be safely mothballed during peacetime.

Also building KE of 500 tns or less does not take 10 months, but rather 4. So it is viable to build small one during a war. Generally i keep around 36 - 48 around at all time later in the game.
They are mostly for ASW duties.
Also i do not really care about their armament. I just autodesign them and then specialize them for ASW or MS.

That tip about KE's of 500 tons or less being a 4 month build time is very helpful and something I will have to keep in mind.

[mycophobia]

Now that KE's will no longer be at risk of auto scrapped, they are almost always better than DDs from a long term cost perspective for TP and can also be equipped for colonial duty. That said, depending on the nation, you might still want to retain the old 500 ton DDs just because it still cost a bit of an investment to replace them all with 600 ton KEs.

Old DDs, even the 500 ton ones, are more expensive than the 600 ton KE in all circumstances to maintain. Even large 1k+ ton colonial KE will cost less especially if you skip guns and speed. (Early game colonial KE can actually take some guns and kill the occasional DD that tries to coastal raids, but from a pure gameplay perspective probably not worth the effort)

Do give KE at least a few 4inchers so they don't die in the "gun duel with submarine" event tho.

[hoffmads]

I build some KEs as minesweepers and occasionally lay down a class for trade protection, but mainly I rely upon my old DDs of under 1100 tons or so, retrofitted with as much ASW gear as can fit, often with only one single or double torpedo tube. In my two games as Great Britain, I've supplemented this around the late-thirties or early-forties by building Hunt-class DDs, fairly close to the historical design - 2x2 4" DP, a single triple or quad torpedo tube mount, and a maximized ASW suite, with whatever space is left over used for light and medium AA, at a speed of about 27 knots. This seems to work well, and if they somehow get roped into a battle, they're not completely defenseless against surface ships. Usually, by this time, my old DDs have suffered serious attrition. If it weren't for the fact that this seems to be sufficient, I'd look into whether building CVEs would be worthwhile.