Pocket Battlecruisers

[halseyincarnate]

I've noticed that in 2 of my games the AI (Germany in particular) has built a fair amount of really small Battlecruisers. These are usually around 15,000 tonnes with 11-inch guns. While this does seem historical for the Germans I was curious if anyone else has noticed these types of ships. They seemed moderately effective as support ships to larger capital ships (until the French air force got involved  ).

[polyarmus]

Jun 22, 2019 11:22:18 GMT -6 halseyincarnate said:

I've noticed that in 2 of my games the AI (Germany in particular) has built a fair amount of really small Battlecruisers. These are usually around 15,000 tonnes with 11-inch guns. While this does seem historical for the Germans I was curious if anyone else has noticed these types of ships. They seemed moderately effective as support ships to larger capital ships (until the French air force got involved  ).

I have seen similar development. Germany shifted to similar cruisers after Washington treaty expired.

[rodentnavy]

They have done this in two campaigns that I have observed. They also come in 12" armed flavours.

[arminpfano]

I am using this ship type frequently myself. Basically it is a bigger CA, named BC because of the 11" or 12" caliber, suitable for cruiser killing, not for trade war.

[corgi]

In my current game I've used a few, and in response the AI has gone wild building hordes of CAs instead of BB or BC and also commissioning this fine specimen of a 1946 battleship:

[alsadius]

Wait, how do you see full specs on an enemy ship like that? Or is that one you've gotten from the auto-design button?

[dorn]

Jun 23, 2019 8:48:08 GMT -6 alsadius said:

Wait, how do you see full specs on an enemy ship like that? Or is that one you've gotten from the auto-design button?

Your design files is:

<name>.x0d

x ... # of save slot

So you can copy any design and change extension to "x0d" and open it in design screen.

[arminpfano]

The mentioned ship from 1946 seems to be a normal CA which was re-classified automatically, I think because of more than 6" armor.

[aeson]

Jun 23, 2019 9:34:42 GMT -6 arminpfano said:

The mentioned ship from 1946 seems to be a normal CA which was re-classified automatically, I think because of more than 6" armor.

A 7" armor belt ought to be fine on a 10" 27kn CA; it's only if you're trying to use heavy guns or are trying to design a particularly slow early-game CA that having an armor belt thicker than 6" is problematic

[ramjb]

Seen them in pretty big numbers. Individually they're absolutely worthless against anything bigger than a CA, but when you're in a big fleet battle when you find out your battleline is facing 8 or 10 of those things (on top of the proper enemy battleships)...even sporting only 11''-12'' guns, well there's a certain value on strenght by numbers and sheer volume of fire.

But personally, even while it's neat to see the AI building ships of very different kinds, I'd never build something that desperately vulnerable to incoming fire.

[jma286]

Jun 22, 2019 11:22:18 GMT -6 halseyincarnate said:

I've noticed that in 2 of my games the AI (Germany in particular) has built a fair amount of really small Battlecruisers. These are usually around 15,000 tonnes with 11-inch guns. While this does seem historical for the Germans I was curious if anyone else has noticed these types of ships. They seemed moderately effective as support ships to larger capital ships (until the French air force got involved  ).

Germany started doing the same thing in my 1900 France game in the late 20s. I think they were a response to my large heavy cruisers.

[dorn]

Jun 25, 2019 11:32:49 GMT -6 jma286 said:

Jun 22, 2019 11:22:18 GMT -6 halseyincarnate said:

I've noticed that in 2 of my games the AI (Germany in particular) has built a fair amount of really small Battlecruisers. These are usually around 15,000 tonnes with 11-inch guns. While this does seem historical for the Germans I was curious if anyone else has noticed these types of ships. They seemed moderately effective as support ships to larger capital ships (until the French air force got involved  ).

Germany started doing the same thing in my 1900 France game in the late 20s. I think they were a response to my large heavy cruisers.

Germany has built it in my game too. I think it takes Deutchland class as basis and increase tonnage thus making it battlecruiser.

[DeMatt]

It might be in response to an arms treaty - I've seen 20kt/12" and 15kt/10" treaties, which technically allow BBs and BCs.

[generalvikus]

I've just had my first battle experience with the German pocket battlecruisers - a fleet engagement in 1929, in which they provided the scouting force for the enemy. The three - ship division was engaged at long range by the entire 15 - strong Allied battle line for ten minutes, receiving two hits each on two ships and six hits on one. The most heavily damage was Hansa - the one which received six hits: 





27 13:42 16 in 20384 yds Superstructure hit. Splinters perforate uptakes (BB Ohio, AP)

27 13:44 Secondary battery scores 1 hit on DD Jacob Jones

27 13:45 14 in 19546 yds Turret A hit TT (BB Michigan, AP)

27 13:47 14 in 19177 yds Hull hit BE * (BB Michigan, AP)

27 13:48 16 in 21760 yds Engine room hit B * (BB Revenge, AP)

27 13:50 14 in 20629 yds Near miss! SEC* Secondary gun crew cut down by splinters! (BB Indiana, AP)

27 13:52 14 in 20907 yds Hull hit D (BB Indiana, AP)

27 13:52 14 in 20907 yds Hull hit B * (BB Indiana, AP)

27 14:49 Limits flooding!

27 15:55 Limits flooding!

27 17:59 Limits flooding!

27 18:45 Cannot keep up and has been detached



Note that while two hits were scored against her horizontal armor (3.5 inches of deck armor, unknown TT) both were 14 inch hits scored at about 20,000 yards, where even Q1 14 inch guns could not penetrate. 

So you might say that these proved to be quite capable as fleet scouts, with sufficient deck armor to protect against the light but always very accurate guns of Michigan and Indiana at the long ranges that scouts might expect to have to deal with. Of course, any one of the penetrating hits might easily have caused a magazine explosion or flash fire, so to some extent, of course, it's down to luck. 

[yemo]

I would have loved to design something like that in the French succession game and was hoping for the AI go give me an excuse to build it (eg Germany building some Deutschland class variant).

With a single, frontal quad 15 or 16'' turret, better turret armor, magazine box protection scheme and superior speed. A true hunter design.