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Post by Fredrik W on May 18, 2015 15:03:22 GMT -6
Pease note though that DesignShip just has very embryonic calculations which are very generalized. RTW will have much more detailed calculations for ship weights which will also be coupled to the current level of research in a number of areas for the building nation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 18:27:14 GMT -6
Guys can you see FredrikW's post? I can see FW's post about designship in RTW from unread posts in tapatalk, but when clicking into the thread the post is not here. It seems my net is playing with me.. Edit: Aha i see it! Thanks for the info FW.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 18, 2015 18:31:59 GMT -6
Pease note though that DesignShip just has very embryonic calculations which are very generalized. RTW will have much more detailed calculations for ship weights which will also be coupled to the current level of research in a number of areas for the building nation. Thanks FW for the update.
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gato
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Post by gato on May 19, 2015 8:18:39 GMT -6
The question about armor and penetration data in SAI game.
According to Navweapons.com, - German 28 cm/45 (11") SK L/45 have penetration 7.9 in (200 mm) at 13,120 yards (12,000 m) (www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_11-45_skc07.htm) - German 30.5 cm/50 (12") SK L/50 have penetration 10.0" (254 mm) at 14,000 yards (12,800 m) and 9.0" (229 mm) at 16,000 yards (15,000 m) (www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_12-50_skc12.htm) - British 13.5"/45 (34.3 cm) Mark V(L)/(H) have penetration 12.2" (310 mm) with 1,250 lbs. (567 kg) AP Shell at 10,000 yards (9,144 m), and have penetration 12.5" (318 mm) with 1,400 lbs. (635 kg) AP Shell at 10,000 yards (9,144 m) (www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_135-45_mk5.htm )
- American 14"/45 (35.6 cm) Marks 1, 2, 3 and 5 have penetration 14.4" (366 mm) at 9,000 yards (8,230 m) and 11.9" (302 mm) at 12,000 yards (10,920 m) (www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_14-45_mk1.htm ) - German 38 cm/45 (14.96") SK L/45 have penetration 14.0 in (356 mm) at 9,510 yards (8,700 m) and 13.5 in (343 mm) at 10,280 yards (9,400 m) (www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_15-45_skc13.htm ) - British 15"/42 (38.1 cm) Mark I have penetration 16.0" (406 mm) at 8,629 yards (7,980 m) and 12.0" (305 mm) at 14,853 yards (13,582 m) (www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_15-42_mk1.htm )
But in SAI`s file vpen.dat (see attachment), main guns of this calibers have a much weak penetrations in comparison to real data of penetration.
For example, SAI`s 11" gun have penetration 113 mm at 13,000 yards, SAI`s 13" gun have penetration 180 mm at 10,000 yards, SAI`s 15" gun have penetration 240 mm at 8,000 yards, etc.
Where is a correlation between real penetration data and game penetration data?
Attachments:vpen.txt (1.76 KB)
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Post by Fredrik W on May 19, 2015 13:07:05 GMT -6
The values are heavily modified for a lot of factors including actual range, ammunition technology, target angle etc etc, and they are then randomized to account for varying armor thickness (armor belts were not of uniform thickness, they tapered towards the ends and top and bottom). I think the end result is fairly representative in the number of penetrations and damage caused in the target. If you disagree with the values in the game, everything is made in text files so that it can be freely modified by the player.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 19, 2015 19:32:32 GMT -6
The values are heavily modified for a lot of factors including actual range, ammunition technology, target angle etc etc, and they are then randomized to account for varying armor thickness (armor belts were not of uniform thickness, they tapered towards the ends and top and bottom). I think the end result is fairly representative in the number of penetrations and damage caused in the target. If you disagree with the values in the game, everything is made in text files so that it can be freely modified by the player. Frederic:
Do you take into account the different armor types like; wrought iron, nickel steel, Harveyized, Krupp; homogenous and facehardened?
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gato
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Post by gato on May 20, 2015 1:21:10 GMT -6
I agree with this - the results are very representative, is not necessary to change game data in this aspect. Thanks!
In this case, how to calculate immunity zones for armoured ships in SAI game correctly? Is enough to use vpen.data y hpen.data tables, or necessary add any additional value to calculations? And how to select correctly armour belt thickness for the new projected ship?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 8:32:49 GMT -6
Same question as gato.
Also another question, if anyone know about torpedo mounts. What's the difference between midships swivel mount and port/starboard broadside swivel mount? I assume midships can launch on either side of ship but has a narrower fire arc. But just purely an assumption.
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gato
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Post by gato on May 20, 2015 8:54:13 GMT -6
About torpedo mount. In DD project (soviet leader-class) are midships torpedo mount, in pocket battleship Deutschland are port/starboard broadside swivel torpedo mount (see attachments). The part of Japanese big CA also has port/starboard broadside swivel torpedo mounts.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 20, 2015 9:55:33 GMT -6
Same question as gato. Also another question, if anyone know about torpedo mounts. What's the difference between midships swivel mount and port/starboard broadside swivel mount? I assume midships can launch on either side of ship but has a narrower fire arc. But just purely an assumption.
Port/Starboard tubes can only fire on that side. Firing arc is the same. The exact angle of the tubes is not the absolute limit, as the gyro settings for the torpedoes determine the exact course.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 20, 2015 9:57:45 GMT -6
I agree with this - the results are very representative, is not necessary to change game data in this aspect. Thanks!
In this case, how to calculate immunity zones for armoured ships in SAI game correctly? Is enough to use vpen.data y hpen.data tables, or necessary add any additional value to calculations? And how to select correctly armour belt thickness for the new projected ship? A relevant question but not so easy to give a hard and simple answer given that the values are heavily modified in the game. I do see the need for an estimate when designing ships, and I will see if it is possible to incorporate a tool in RTW to show the penetration of different guns.
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Post by Fredrik W on May 20, 2015 10:01:07 GMT -6
The values are heavily modified for a lot of factors including actual range, ammunition technology, target angle etc etc, and they are then randomized to account for varying armor thickness (armor belts were not of uniform thickness, they tapered towards the ends and top and bottom). I think the end result is fairly representative in the number of penetrations and damage caused in the target. If you disagree with the values in the game, everything is made in text files so that it can be freely modified by the player. Frederic:
Do you take into account the different armor types like; wrought iron, nickel steel, Harveyized, Krupp; homogenous and facehardened?
That is done in the ship designs, the values are assumed to be in Krupp armor. In RTW this will be handled so that armor research will affect the weight of a certain armor thickness. The better armor research, the lighter the armor of a certain Krupp-equivalent thickness will be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 10:27:21 GMT -6
Wow. Thanks for the answers Fredrik W. It is very informative.
And gato thanks for the pics.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 20, 2015 13:24:49 GMT -6
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Post by vonfriedman on May 21, 2015 10:32:35 GMT -6
If there is anyone willing to build a division of super BCs of the "Incomparable" type, this would be their appearance, according to the memoirs of Admiral Fisher. HMS Dreadnought is also shown in foreground.
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