Best ships and designs

[f105d]

Feb 16, 2021 20:31:58 GMT -6 w2c said:

Unfortunately I'm unable to replicate what your ship was able to manage, I assume primarily due to the advanced tech you'd have making a big difference as an exact copy of this came in 1,775 overweight for me. Your hull weight lists as 1k less than mine and engines account for another 400 so that's the majority of the difference right there with armor being the next biggest difference. I could do it with 13" guns which wouldn't be a terrible idea for a new BC but just not feasible for the fast BB I want to build.

Maybe drop a knot in speed.You might be able to fit even more firepower into the hull. 

[w2c]

Feb 16, 2021 23:24:11 GMT -6 f105d said:

Feb 16, 2021 20:31:58 GMT -6 w2c said:

Unfortunately I'm unable to replicate what your ship was able to manage, I assume primarily due to the advanced tech you'd have making a big difference as an exact copy of this came in 1,775 overweight for me. Your hull weight lists as 1k less than mine and engines account for another 400 so that's the majority of the difference right there with armor being the next biggest difference. I could do it with 13" guns which wouldn't be a terrible idea for a new BC but just not feasible for the fast BB I want to build.

Maybe drop a knot in speed.View AttachmentView AttachmentYou might be able to fit even more firepower into the hull. 

It's an intriguing idea and I'm sure I'll move towards options such as that in the near future but I don't think it's currently necessary for this generation of ships. Those German dreadnoughts I mentioned will actually be using 10 16's, and I've seen other ships of theirs with as many as 12 15's but the ships carrying them are a full 10k plus displacement smaller than mine, much slower, and much less heavily armored. The advantages these ships currently enjoy is that I can get into knife fighting range against weaker opponents easily, and when I do run into one of these stronger ships I can easily dictate the desired range so even their greater broadside just pings off my much stronger armor while mine rips through them like paper. The newest German BC for example happens to have 12 15's of the same quality as mine, and even happens to have a similar speed of 27 knots but only 8.5" of belt armor. My own 15's can penetrate that armor effectively at any range up to their maximum of 27k, though of course hitting at that range is unlikely and deck will be more important there but still. My 15" of armor will protect me from the guns both ships will be using up to 12k. That gives me a really wide range of superiority and improved director is nearly researched for me so those ranges will become even more viable than they have been. Sure having a heavier broadside would be nice, but I'm unwilling to make any sacrifices to my ships current superiority in order to achieve it. I also just unlocked unit machinery, secondary director, almost have improved director and inclined belt, so would prefer to use the extra weight towards those areas rather than increasing my armament just yet. Perhaps in the next generation of BBs it'll be something I can look into.

[oldpop2000]

Here is a design circa 1920 for the UK. Now, examine the secondary guns. The picture has four two gun turrets, but the specifications states 10 guns. where are the other two guns, sports fans. Also where are the stacks, I don't see any and the AI built the ship. I only modified it a tiny bit.

[w2c]

Feb 17, 2021 14:31:32 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Here is a design circa 1920 for the UK. Now, examine the secondary guns. The picture has four two gun turrets, but the specifications states 10 guns. where are the other two guns, sports fans. Also where are the stacks, I don't see any and the AI built the ship. I only modified it a tiny bit.



View Attachment

I recall them saying that uneven numbers of secondary turrets got put centerline and effectively had full range. Or did they say they split their fire? I forget but pretty sure it was kinda cheaty where the guns could fire to either side so was the optimal way to build if you wanted to take advantage and it's why I always avoid those situations and build in multiples of 4. Who knows with the stacks. I've seen that happen from time to time. I'm surprised you're running with only a 3" deck honestly. 

[oldpop2000]

Feb 17, 2021 14:50:31 GMT -6 w2c said:

Feb 17, 2021 14:31:32 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Here is a design circa 1920 for the UK. Now, examine the secondary guns. The picture has four two gun turrets, but the specifications states 10 guns. where are the other two guns, sports fans. Also where are the stacks, I don't see any and the AI built the ship. I only modified it a tiny bit.



View Attachment

I recall them saying that uneven numbers of secondary turrets got put centerline and effectively had full range. Or did they say they split their fire? I forget but pretty sure it was kinda cheaty where the guns could fire to either side so was the optimal way to build if you wanted to take advantage and it's why I always avoid those situations and build in multiples of 4. Who knows with the stacks. I've seen that happen from time to time. I'm surprised you're running with only a 3" deck honestly. 

I couldn't actually build the ship due to the treaty but the 3 inch is an oversight. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. 5 inches is what it should be. Here is the updated version. It now has stacks and the correct number gun turrets. And the correct deck armor with deck extended. 

[oldpop2000]

OK another design. This time, I sacrifice some speed for heavier armor and 18 inch guns. I've balanced the design another direction. Is it better than my Illustrious, will it do better in battle? I doubt it seriously because it is more expensive and not as fast. In combat, can I sit back at the range of 18 inch guns and really expect to hit anything, and sink it. It is doubtful.

[oldpop2000]

I maybe taking this too far, but here is a list with specifications for British Battleship proposed during the 1920's. If someone is curious, you could investigate the game information in gun data and see if it follows this information. I have much much more as to penetration and gun size. Enjoy.

[hawkeye]

Feb 17, 2021 15:08:51 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Feb 17, 2021 14:50:31 GMT -6 w2c said:

I recall them saying that uneven numbers of secondary turrets got put centerline and effectively had full range. Or did they say they split their fire? I forget but pretty sure it was kinda cheaty where the guns could fire to either side so was the optimal way to build if you wanted to take advantage and it's why I always avoid those situations and build in multiples of 4. Who knows with the stacks. I've seen that happen from time to time. I'm surprised you're running with only a 3" deck honestly. 

I couldn't actually build the ship due to the treaty but the 3 inch is an oversight. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. 5 inches is what it should be. Here is the updated version. It now has stacks and the correct number gun turrets. And the correct deck armor with deck extended. 


View Attachment

Was going with torpedo protection 2 a deliberate choice or is it the best you have available.
I'm wondering because for BB/BC I usually go with the best available myself and given the tech that seems to be used in this BB, it seems unlikely for TP2 to be the best there is.

[oldpop2000]

Feb 17, 2021 23:58:15 GMT -6 hawkeye said:

Feb 17, 2021 15:08:51 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

I couldn't actually build the ship due to the treaty but the 3 inch is an oversight. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. 5 inches is what it should be. Here is the updated version. It now has stacks and the correct number gun turrets. And the correct deck armor with deck extended. 


View Attachment

Was going with torpedo protection 2 a deliberate choice or is it the best you have available.
I'm wondering because for BB/BC I usually go with the best available myself and given the tech that seems to be used in this BB, it seems unlikely for TP2 to be the best there is.

I generally do go with the best tp but the ship I was trying to duplicate only had tp2. 

[vonfriedman]

Feb 17, 2021 19:28:12 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

I maybe taking this too far, but here is a list with specifications for British Battleship proposed during the 1920's. If someone is curious, you could investigate the game information in gun data and see if it follows this information. I have much much more as to penetration and gun size. Enjoy.

View Attachment

One wonders what kind of ship Germany would have built, instead of the Bismarck, had she had to deal with the mighty G3 class BCs. Perhaps it would have been forced to anticipate the construction of the monstrous H-class battleships.

[oldpop2000]

Feb 18, 2021 8:32:16 GMT -6 vonfriedman said:

Feb 17, 2021 19:28:12 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

I maybe taking this too far, but here is a list with specifications for British Battleship proposed during the 1920's. If someone is curious, you could investigate the game information in gun data and see if it follows this information. I have much much more as to penetration and gun size. Enjoy.

View Attachment

One wonders what kind of ship Germany would have built, instead of the Bismarck, had she had to deal with the mighty G3 class BCs. Perhaps it would have been forced to anticipate the construction of the monstrous H-class battleships.

Here is what was planned and started but scrapped or cancelled - www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/battleships/index.html

Here is a simple capture of my spreadsheet for those German Battleships. I might continue with the total Plan Z, I don't know.

[oldpop2000]

Ok, Moving in another direction. I designed a British version of the Scharnhorst. Now, these had to be the worst battleships. My version is a raider.

[abclark]

As far as flash fires are concerned, IIRC a 6" gun mounted as part of a secondary or tertiary battery has no chance to cause a flash fire. Above 6" though, that is no longer true. 2" armor for secondary guns is still advisable as it will protect against splinters and small caliber fire.

[w2c]

Feb 18, 2021 13:48:29 GMT -6 abclark said:

As far as flash fires are concerned, IIRC a 6" gun mounted as part of a secondary or tertiary battery has no chance to cause a flash fire. Above 6" though, that is no longer true. 2" armor for secondary guns is still advisable as it will protect against splinters and small caliber fire.

I'd thought I'd heard it said that it was possible for 6" but just very highly improbable. 

[aeson]

Feb 18, 2021 14:32:58 GMT -6 w2c said:

Feb 18, 2021 13:48:29 GMT -6 abclark said:

As far as flash fires are concerned, IIRC a 6" gun mounted as part of a secondary or tertiary battery has no chance to cause a flash fire. Above 6" though, that is no longer true. 2" armor for secondary guns is still advisable as it will protect against splinters and small caliber fire.

I'd thought I'd heard it said that it was possible for 6" but just very highly improbable. 

6" or lighter guns cannot suffer flashfires as secondary guns, but can suffer flashfires (with a reduced probability compared to heavier guns) as main guns.