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Post by nimrod on Aug 7, 2021 15:46:50 GMT -6
Interesting point about training in the pre-dreadnought era, thanks. Regarding training in AF versus RF/MB, I was under the impression that ships in the latter group don't benefit much from training due to low crew quality overall. I may well be wrong. Keeping only a small part of the fleet in AF may help, but then I only do so for modern ships with Elite status (usually a lucky CA or two). Ya, post early 1920's training tends to loose its appeal to just about all players; unless they are role playing the IJN with night fighting or something similar.
Good and higher crew quality are definitely worth more than what the training offers. In general higher crew quality means, better accuracy, damage control, speed in identifying enemy ships, I think they are less prone to signalling errors, etc. However, its a cost benefit analysis, if I can save 1K per turn with RF+training vs. AF with no training, than I normally will save the monies and go RF+training. The early ships are not very survivable, I get the accuracy bonus from training and the speeds are low so I don't benefit from quick target identification unless its at night...
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Post by holoween on Aug 7, 2021 17:50:16 GMT -6
So are you guys constantly at war? Because otherwise youre ships training level will degrade especially with upgrades. Id say best practice is to start trainging a year in advance of a war and couple it with a fleet exercise so you can start the war with the majority of ships trained to elite status. The actual benefit is just a bonus.
As for destroyers i usually treat them as the life insurance of my battleline. If i ever run into a fight i cant win flotilla attacks give the opportunity to disengage even against faster opposition. The enemy battleline will have to make the decision of chasing into destroyers which will cost them torpedo hits or breaking off. They also protect from submarines event and during battle and at least help against aircraft.
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Post by gurudennis on Aug 7, 2021 21:39:22 GMT -6
So are you guys constantly at war? Because otherwise youre ships training level will degrade especially with upgrades. Id say best practice is to start trainging a year in advance of a war and couple it with a fleet exercise so you can start the war with the majority of ships trained to elite status. The actual benefit is just a bonus. Crew experience only degrades with upgrades or on RF/MB, not on AF over time. At least that's my observation over medium-term. I've never gone so much as a decade without fighting a war. One challenge for me is in predicting when specifically a war will break out. There is a significant element of unpredictable delay at times. Besides, the top priority before a war is often not so much to train the crews but to save up enough cash that you can afford the mobilization. I suppose the budgetary constraints don't apply quite in the same way when playing the US or the UK.
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Post by holoween on Aug 8, 2021 4:07:07 GMT -6
I usually play super large size with historical resources no ai advantedge on admiral as any of the minor nations. I havent actually played as US or UK at all so far.
So while there is always some budget to build capital ships im never going to reach numerical parity with someone like the UK. The best way of dealing with this nummerical inferiority is to start the war with as many ships as possible on elite crew status and at least gunnery training and if i can afford it and radar isnt yet a thing night fighting. That way while i have fewer capital ships they are significantly better and can cause crippling damage to a part of the enemy fleet before withdrawing to repair gaining enough vps early war when the enemy isnt trained to allow a favourable peace. For that strategy dds are one of the most essential parts and i usually maintai the biggest in number and tonnage DD fleet of all nations because these dds ensure i dont loose capital ships to an oponent simply overrunning me with the larger battleline or in case of the uk his faster battlecruisers.
I also dont fight as many wars as managing tension so i dont get dragged into a war against the UK/US at the wrong moment is important. Fleet exercises are a great tool to manage when to start a war aswell. Tensions always rise and fall with different nations and having a large fleet exercise at the right time is extra tension to start a war when otherwise you might not get one as you get the wrong events.
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Post by arminpfano on Aug 8, 2021 6:53:55 GMT -6
My DD-usage:
1) Right at 1900 I build 30 - 40 DDs and wait for "fleet battles". My CAs (I never build Bs) are the bait for the enemy battle line. They come after them, and I flank them with 2 - 3 DD flotillas to start a suicide attack from two sides up to point blank range. They torp typically all capital ships, and the CAs clean up the rest (CA/CL etc.) (at captains level, of course).
2) After the appearance of BBs and BCs with better middle artillery this won´t work, besides night fights. Now my few BCs (very good ones) cripple some enemy capitals by artillery to slow them down and to isolate them. Then the DDs kill them by zero distance torp attacks.
The number of DDs lost ist astonishly low for both cases.
By the way: I always use "gunnery" and "torpedo" training throughout the whole game. I think it is worth the price, and also the nerves: Its maddening to have meticiously navigated a perfect torpedo trap for some enemy fleet, and then bad shooting ruins all the work...
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Post by nimrod on Aug 8, 2021 7:40:51 GMT -6
One challenge for me is in predicting when specifically a war will break out. There is a significant element of unpredictable delay at times. Besides, the top priority before a war is often not so much to train the crews but to save up enough cash that you can afford the mobilization. I suppose the budgetary constraints don't apply quite in the same way when playing the US or the UK. Early game and or playing fairly passively than I agree on all counts. Once you are at tension level 8-9, war can strike at any moment; so I tend to move my MB'd capital ships to AF to train up to fair experience and strategic airbases tend to be either activated or filled with reserve squadrons. MB'd DD, CL and CA will go to trade protection, so I don't generally worry about their exp; once they are experienced than they will join the AF roster if needed. RF ships at fair exp will usually stay on RF to acquire spare funds.
I'm currently playing as Japan in late 40's (48 or 49) and my budget (last I checked) is in the high 600K range, England is around 1,010K and USA is around 1,300K. The other nations top out around 500K with some being high 300K range. I have over 160 prestige and in my current war with France and Germany, I'm building two BC at 6,500ish a turn, an invasion attempt at 3k and have full fleet mobilization while just being a few thousand in the red every turn. I'm debating demobilizing about half of my force to rake in the money for peace time and also minimize losses to the 160 subs that are off my cost. I've been at war with England twice and won both of them - latest got me Singapore and a handful of the low point German colonies.
My point is that play style (not necessarily the country) can make the biggest difference regarding naval funding - high tensions increase budget, so I always try to stay on the knife edge of war. War will sometimes surprise me, and I'm generally at war again within 2 years, but in general I'm able to pretty well maintain alliances / respond quick enough to not have massive issues.
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