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Post by cwemyss on Jul 21, 2022 15:55:43 GMT -6
Are there any changes in RTW3 for Coastal Artillery? Until the airplane era I usually keep one battery building at all times, basically as roleplay... navies in the era generally spent a ton of effort and money on coastal fortifications. That said, I don't remember them ever even scratching an enemy ship in my games.
A couple tweaks I've thought of that might make this more than an RP feature:
Gun ranges: a lot of coastal defense mounts were capable of higher angle fire than shipboard equivalents, potentially allowing longer ranges
Sighting range: particularly in places with cliffs and mountains, coastal guns should have much longer sighting ranges (in good weather) than a ship. I'm not sure if terrain is modeled to a detailed enough level to represent this, but even in flat areas... its pretty easy to build a 50' tower in top of a sand dune.
Coastal reporting: along with the increased sighting ranges, they could provide sighting reports just like any other friendly forces.
Repurposing ship guns: when a ship is scrapped, or a rebuild upgrades/changes guns, could the removed guns be offered to the player for use in a coastal battery? Same when scrapping ships being built. For instance, when scrapping a 4x12 Predred, you'd be offered the chance to build a 12" coastal btty, maybe for the price of an 8".
Coastal AShMs: the next step in the progression, particularly in restricted waters, would be Silkworm and the like... heavy Anti Ship missiles. Very useful as area denial weapons, and cheap ways to attack ships in chokepoints.
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Post by wlbjork on Jul 21, 2022 21:21:45 GMT -6
At the moment gun batteries do provide sighting reports. They also have a passive effect of slowing down invasion attempts, firstly by forcing opponents to work around them when for the landing and secondly by slowing down ground troops once the landing has occurred.
Building a tower on a sand dune is a bad idea. Sand dunes move. Note that from what I can tell, all ships (which includes coastal batteries for simplicity in coding) have fixed and identical spotting ranges.
Longer ranged guns and repurposed guns are good ideas, whilst I think the anti-shipping missile battery is in the plans.
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Post by tbr on Jul 22, 2022 11:56:01 GMT -6
I have made (and uploaded in this forum) a mod which cheapens coastal battery upkeep and makes them more combat effective. Cannot do much about their range though, apart from always enabling increased elevation. I regularly see enemy (and my own ships) severely damaged or outright sunk by coastal batteries if they stray into range.
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Post by attemptingsuccess on Jul 25, 2022 0:35:04 GMT -6
I've always thought that bigger ships had bigger spotting ranges. I'm pretty sure thats what I see in the spotting circle
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Post by benjamin1992perry on Jul 25, 2022 1:02:21 GMT -6
I believe spotting ranges would have to do with the height of the lookouts/radars. There is an equation for height above ground level to line of sight to the horizon that would tell you how much range you would have.
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Post by williammiller on Jul 25, 2022 9:06:06 GMT -6
A couple of quick notes here:
1) Spotting ranges are based on both spotter and target size (i.e. simulating relative heights) - there is not a 'single' spotting distance.
2) Coastal missile batteries are a new addition for RTW3 and can prove to be rather dangerous for enemy shipping...
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Post by benjamin1992perry on Jul 25, 2022 11:12:38 GMT -6
Can't wait to try out the coastal missile batteries, should make things interesting late game.
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Post by cwemyss on Jul 25, 2022 11:24:09 GMT -6
Spotting ranges are based on both spotter and target size (i.e. simulating relative heights) - there is not a 'single' spotting distance. I'd seen vastly different spotting range circles on the map for BB/BC vs DDs. Are coastlines modeled with enough fidelity to give different spotting ranges for coastal batteries? For instance, The Citadel at Dover (~150m) vs. The Rock Battery at Gibraltar (~400m) vs. Fort Morgan, Alabama (approx sea level).
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Post by williammiller on Jul 25, 2022 16:06:59 GMT -6
Spotting ranges are based on both spotter and target size (i.e. simulating relative heights) - there is not a 'single' spotting distance. I'd seen vastly different spotting range circles on the map for BB/BC vs DDs. Are coastlines modeled with enough fidelity to give different spotting ranges for coastal batteries? For instance, The Citadel at Dover (~150m) vs. The Rock Battery at Gibraltar (~400m) vs. Fort Morgan, Alabama (approx sea level). I dont believe coastal batteries have any specific height data that affects spotting (other than that derived from the 'size' value) - I have however posted this as a suggestion in our internal threads.
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jatzi
Full Member
Posts: 123
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Post by jatzi on Jul 25, 2022 18:01:56 GMT -6
I really like the idea of being able to repurpose old turrets for coastal defenses. Historically very common and it'd be cool.
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Post by thomasmacmoragh on Jul 25, 2022 20:46:21 GMT -6
Can't wait to try out the coastal missile batteries, should make things interesting late game. The Baltic is already a death trap after the development of air power
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Post by maxnacemit on Jul 26, 2022 0:32:38 GMT -6
Can't wait to try out the coastal missile batteries, should make things interesting late game. The Baltic is already a death trap after the development of air power It would influence Russian and German ship design. I presume they would have less large ships(for example, I had no CVs in my last Russia game, and I finished it with 127 prestige) which would mean these ships would need less escort value and they could pack more of an SSM punch.
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Post by woos13 on Aug 1, 2022 19:16:00 GMT -6
Are there any changes in RTW3 for Coastal Artillery? Until the airplane era I usually keep one battery building at all times, basically as roleplay... navies in the era generally spent a ton of effort and money on coastal fortifications. That said, I don't remember them ever even scratching an enemy ship in my games. A couple tweaks I've thought of that might make this more than an RP feature: Gun ranges: a lot of coastal defense mounts were capable of higher angle fire than shipboard equivalents, potentially allowing longer ranges Sighting range: particularly in places with cliffs and mountains, coastal guns should have much longer sighting ranges (in good weather) than a ship. I'm not sure if terrain is modeled to a detailed enough level to represent this, but even in flat areas... its pretty easy to build a 50' tower in top of a sand dune. Coastal reporting: along with the increased sighting ranges, they could provide sighting reports just like any other friendly forces. Repurposing ship guns: when a ship is scrapped, or a rebuild upgrades/changes guns, could the removed guns be offered to the player for use in a coastal battery? Same when scrapping ships being built. For instance, when scrapping a 4x12 Predred, you'd be offered the chance to build a 12" coastal btty, maybe for the price of an 8". Coastal AShMs: the next step in the progression, particularly in restricted waters, would be Silkworm and the like... heavy Anti Ship missiles. Very useful as area denial weapons, and cheap ways to attack ships in chokepoints. I like these ideas that makes many battles more historical, such as the Imperial Coast Defense force of Qing Dynasty defeat the British and French forces with coastal batteries at the The Second Battle of Dagu Estuary on June 20, 1859
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Post by andrzej597 on Aug 3, 2022 12:37:45 GMT -6
I have a suggestion about late-game coastal artillery, think it can be implemented: Since early 1960s some countries, primarly Sweden, developed towed coastal guns of 75-mm, 105-mm, 120-mm and 155-mm calibres, which could be rapidly repositioned to a threatened place using trucks or artillery tractors and quickly emplaced almost everywhere using system of outriggers. Soviet Union also had semi-movable coastal 100-mm and 130-mm guns. A suggestion: maybe in late-game such movable coast batteries can be implemented? Maybe they can be technicaly done as a "land ships", using the same logic as ships but moving only over land like ships in-game move only over sea and automatically turn away from coast when driven to it?
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Post by abclark on Aug 5, 2022 11:50:28 GMT -6
I have a suggestion about late-game coastal artillery, think it can be implemented: Since early 1960s some countries, primarly Sweden, developed towed coastal guns of 75-mm, 105-mm, 120-mm and 155-mm calibres, which could be rapidly repositioned to a threatened place using trucks or artillery tractors and quickly emplaced almost everywhere using system of outriggers. Soviet Union also had semi-movable coastal 100-mm and 130-mm guns. A suggestion: maybe in late-game such movable coast batteries can be implemented? Maybe they can be technicaly done as a "land ships", using the same logic as ships but moving only over land like ships in-game move only over sea and automatically turn away from coast when driven to it? I think "quickly emplaced" is a relative term here. They should have a significant chance of showing up in a coastal battle where the land holder isn't surprised, and perhaps a chance of appearing during longer battles, but I think that the player moving them around is too much.** An idea for that would be a system that basically alerts the player that mobile guns are on the way and gives them the option to pick a position to emplace them. Then after a semi-random time they appear and begin the emplacement process. **The player might be able to request that they show up in a specific spot, but once they're emplaced they shouldn't move. Or if they do, they should be unable to fire for a significant period of time before and after their move. Even a 75mm towed gun is a fairly large undertaking to move, emplace, and survey to allow for fire control calculations. My limited google research didn't bring up specifics on the guns or their carriers, so I could be underestimating their capabilities.
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