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Post by linnet on Jan 12, 2023 8:07:26 GMT -6
Can somebody please explain when fast battleships become available and also if possible when the speed requirements for battlecruisers change?I love this game but do get confused quite often.
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Post by wlbjork on Jan 12, 2023 10:01:48 GMT -6
As the game progresses the minimum speed for classification as a Battlecruiser gradually gets higher. If memory serves, it starts somewhere in the low-mid 20-knot range and stops in the low 30-knot range.
A Fast Battleship in game terms is a Battleship that is capable of travelling at 30 knots, maybe a little less, but isn't classed as a Battlecruiser. Expect this to be around the 1930s-1940s.
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Post by linnet on Jan 12, 2023 12:16:07 GMT -6
Thank you,so if I build a 27 knot battleship in 1920 it would not appear in cruiser battles?
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Post by JagdFlanker on Jan 12, 2023 14:27:23 GMT -6
Thank you,so if I build a 27 knot battleship in 1920 it would not appear in cruiser battles? that should be the case, although sometimes battles throw a curve at you
i havn't fully tested this yet, but it seems ships with 12.5" of belt armour or more will be classified a BB no matter the speed - i assume it's because 12" of belt armour is likely the max a BC can have |
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Post by linnet on Jan 12, 2023 16:07:37 GMT -6
Yes I am sure you are right about the armour limit,I have just been trying it out.It seems 28 knots is minimum speed for a battlecruiser in 1920,I just want to try to get ships that will turn up in cruiser battles as there are such a lot of them,
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Post by aeson on Jan 12, 2023 17:52:15 GMT -6
i havn't fully tested this yet, but it seems ships with 12.5" of belt armour or more will be classified a BB no matter the speed - i assume it's because 12" of belt armour is likely the max a BC can have Have you tried design speeds higher than 30 knots?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 12, 2023 18:17:30 GMT -6
I dunno, I like this one... game doesn't but I do.   Now, I like this one even more..... again, the game doesn't. Who cares? I do.  |
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Post by zederfflinger on Jan 12, 2023 23:15:45 GMT -6
Personally, I'd like to see ships built as BC's remain as such unless the player does something to change them into BB's. The battlecruiser is more of a role than a exact ship type, and when old, 25-26 knot BC's are forced into being used as BB's by the battle generator, it really makes them useless.
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Post by zederfflinger on Jan 12, 2023 23:18:33 GMT -6
I dunno, I like this one... game doesn't but I do. View AttachmentNow, I like this one even more..... again, the game doesn't. Who cares? I do. View Attachment40 knots will break any system I guess. The second one is pretty decent. Kind of like a later Renown with smaller guns for better armor and speed. |
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Post by dorn on Jan 13, 2023 0:46:22 GMT -6
Personally, I'd like to see ships built as BC's remain as such unless the player does something to change them into BB's. The battlecruiser is more of a role than a exact ship type, and when old, 25-26 knot BC's are forced into being used as BB's by the battle generator, it really makes them useless. This is how the game works only suggesting of reclassification to BB later but not forcing it. |
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Post by JagdFlanker on Jan 13, 2023 6:39:17 GMT -6
i havn't fully tested this yet, but it seems ships with 12.5" of belt armour or more will be classified a BB no matter the speed - i assume it's because 12" of belt armour is likely the max a BC can have Have you tried design speeds higher than 30 knots?
that's pretty late game, once i get a CV in service BBs are only around for battle generator purposes - i might build 1 new class of BBs after 1920 (when i get AON) and none after 1940-ish
by experimenting i mean i want to try a game where i build only B/BBs until 1920 because BCs don't seem to count towards your B/BB ship total, and if you build BCs early game instead of BBs the game won't let you retire old Bs no matter how old they are. a lot of my ship building choices are made to manipulate game limitations or the battle generator - i use BCs in the exact same role as Bs or BBs and consider them identical, but the game does not think so
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 13, 2023 7:33:22 GMT -6
I dunno, I like this one... game doesn't but I do. View AttachmentNow, I like this one even more..... again, the game doesn't. Who cares? I do. View Attachment40 knots will break any system I guess. The second one is pretty decent. Kind of like a later Renown with smaller guns for better armor and speed. I agree, I like the second one myself. |
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Post by aeson on Jan 13, 2023 10:45:05 GMT -6
Have you tried design speeds higher than 30 knots?
that's pretty late game, once i get a CV in service BBs are only around for battle generator purposes - i might build 1 new class of BBs after 1920 (when i get AON) and none after 1940-ish
by experimenting i mean i want to try a game where i build only B/BBs until 1920 because BCs don't seem to count towards your B/BB ship total, and if you build BCs early game instead of BBs the game won't let you retire old Bs no matter how old they are. a lot of my ship building choices are made to manipulate game limitations or the battle generator - i use BCs in the exact same role as Bs or BBs and consider them identical, but the game does not think so
Works earlier in the game, too. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 13, 2023 12:52:38 GMT -6
Just some naval engineering facts: The speed of a Fast Battleship was determined as 1.19 times the square root of the waterline length. For a Tin can it was 1.79 times the square root of the waterline length. I think you can see that cruisers would be somewhere in between.
For the IOWA's, whose length was 860 ft. at the waterline, the answer is 34.89. Her tested speed was 33 knots or 38 miles per hour. Close, as you can see.
for cruisers, you could use 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length. For the Alaska's, whose waterline length was 791.6 feet, the answer would be 37 knots. Actual speed was 33 knots or 38MPH. But your answer is closer if you use the fast battleship formula. In this case, the answer is 33.48 Knots..
For the Baltimore class, LWL was 673.5 Ft. and estimated speed would be 34.7 knots. Actual tested speed was 33 knots.
Now, if we have a 33Kt. fast battleship, then the speed in knots divided by 1.19 and the answer squared would yield a waterline length of 769.013 feet. So, the design I submitted which was 40 knots would then have a waterline length of 1,129.86 feet. I think that is a bit much, don't you agree.
Anyway, lots of fun.
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Post by ludovic on Jan 13, 2023 20:37:24 GMT -6
by experimenting i mean i want to try a game where i build only B/BBs until 1920 because BCs don't seem to count towards your B/BB ship total, and if you build BCs early game instead of BBs the game won't let you retire old Bs no matter how old they are. a lot of my ship building choices are made to manipulate game limitations or the battle generator - i use BCs in the exact same role as Bs or BBs and consider them identical, but the game does not think so
Lately I've been not building any Bs or BBs at all, so there isn't any penalty for trying to get rid of them. I start off with gold plated CAs, due to the battle generator as you've said. They are as expensive as a B, and can't stand up to them in a battle, but they show up in cruiser battles, and at 22kn are fast enough to decide if they will chase or run away from most things. I jump immediately to BCs using the same theory, I only build a couple of them per decade at the most but make sure to make them fast enough that I can pick my battles and even run down the enemy's previous generation of cruisers if they show up to a cruiser battle. And I still tend to get a blockade going because I make a lot of minimal cruisers. I originally meant them to be raiders, but they also have quite a lot of blockade weight versus their cost. The only problem with that is that they're pretty bad in battle. But the enemy doesn't chase them down as much as I thought as they would even though they are only 21kn. |
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