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Post by wlbjork on Aug 7, 2023 0:35:31 GMT -6
Britain, 1890 start, Super Large Fleet, No Tech Variation, Harsh Peace Deals, Slow A/C development, 60 aircraft per base maximum. The game seems to generate an excess of 9,100t CLs using these options. I didn't count in my last play through, but about 33% of my initial fleet in this playthrough consists of these types of ship. At this point in the game, Cruisers over 8,000t are usually rated as CAs. I suspect this could be an issue with the generator itself, as all of the designs in question were derived from CA9B0. Note: I think this could also explain why I keep getting complaints about a lack of CA tonnage - the ships exist but for some reason have been mislabelled. Attachments:Game4.7z (124.8 KB)
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Post by cormallen on Aug 7, 2023 7:37:28 GMT -6
The RN didn't like actual armoured cruisers much in the 1890s. They had tried a few earlier but (probably correctly) felt that the contemporary (Iron/Compound/Mild Steel) materials made getting sufficient protection onto a fairly fast cruising warship non-viable. They built a lot of big "1st class Protected Cruisers" instead...this is what the game is (somewhat prematurely) giving you in 1890. Really you should have a few, relatively small, protected cruisers, a few old ironclads re-tasked as station flagships and masses of fully rigged steam and sail Corvettes, Sloops and Gunboats all eager to head out to patrol the "pink bits" of the Queen's domains.
I've started building up a selection of more historically appropriate designs (I would not dare claim they are "accurate"!) for my own game (I posted some on here somewhere) but I've paused the process for a bit to let the updates settle before starting on the rest of the French and Russians.
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Post by blarglol on Aug 7, 2023 7:55:24 GMT -6
I've noticed this as well from the opposing side: 14x6in guns on a 9,100 ton CL. Sometimes they have smaller versions of this, less tonnage and speed, but the same gun layout.
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Post by cormallen on Aug 7, 2023 8:05:12 GMT -6
I've noticed this as well from the opposing side: 14x6in guns on a 9,100 ton CL. Sometimes they have smaller versions of this, less tonnage and speed, but the same gun layout. The early cruisers are all rather too good tbh, they are roughly on par with the sort of designs that historically turned up in the later 1890s. Not much diversity either, though that's a problem with a lot of the stock IDes stuff. In time the community will produce modded start fleets and IDes lists to fix it but the game is still "bedding in" so not sure it's worth really too much work into that just yet? The adjustment to the design eras is quite a problem too as the current boundaries (1890-96, 97-05 etc) aren't great in terms of reflecting the real world design evolution from Ironclad to Pre-Dreadnought to Semi-Dreadnought to All-Big-Gun stuff. |
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Post by williammiller on Aug 7, 2023 10:00:46 GMT -6
Making note of this - thanks.
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Post by wlbjork on Aug 7, 2023 10:17:47 GMT -6
The RN didn't like actual armoured cruisers much in the 1890s. They had tried a few earlier but (probably correctly) felt that the contemporary (Iron/Compound/Mild Steel) materials made getting sufficient protection onto a fairly fast cruising warship non-viable. They built a lot of big "1st class Protected Cruisers" instead...this is what the game is (somewhat prematurely) giving you in 1890. Really you should have a few, relatively small, protected cruisers, a few old ironclads re-tasked as station flagships and masses of fully rigged steam and sail Corvettes, Sloops and Gunboats all eager to head out to patrol the "pink bits" of the Queen's domains. I've started building up a selection of more historically appropriate designs (I would not dare claim they are "accurate"!) for my own game (I posted some on here somewhere) but I've paused the process for a bit to let the updates settle before starting on the rest of the French and Russians. Yep, that was indeed the view of the Royal Navy, and the first large (1st-Class) Protected Cruisers were the 9,100t Blake-class. The problem is, if you try to design a CL from scratch at 2,000t the game tells you that the design '...until 1928 be smaller than 8,000t' - which rule is being ignored. Thankfully, the dev team are aware of the issue and will resolve the issue one way or another  |
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Post by cormallen on Aug 7, 2023 10:19:46 GMT -6
I thought the -2 qual guns overrode most limitations? Or just call them CAs (it's their role anyway) and go with the flow?
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Post by wlbjork on Aug 7, 2023 22:29:28 GMT -6
I thought the -2 qual guns overrode most limitations? Or just call them CAs (it's their role anyway) and go with the flow? Think that's what the dev team will be discussing - is that a limitation that should still apply? IMO, yes it should. Also, these are the auto-generated ships for 1890 so I can't override the games designations - although that option appears to have been removed anyway, as if I choose the 'no' option to reclassifying the ship, I don't get the 'we need to do a design study to bring this to production' message  |
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Post by cormallen on Aug 8, 2023 0:34:06 GMT -6
The games type classifications are mostly the to control ship behaviour in battle and there's relatively little difference between CA and CL most of the time. A chonky "1st class Protected Cruiser" like the RN used in the late 1890s really would ACT like a CA. When I did my various "Quasi-Historical" stuff in RTW2 I found a lot of the big old designs didn't happily slot into the game's class parameters so often had to reclassify them in the edit. The German Furst Bismarck came out as a B (fair enough as she's really a slightly faster "Kaiser Fred" with a touch less armour and dakka) so I changed him back into a CA (as that's what the German's called him and used him as) and for to see some impressive "Massive Raider Active" against the French!
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Post by blarglol on Aug 8, 2023 7:08:50 GMT -6
Point of order for the auto-generation: Britain built ships of this layout in my game as I said, after 1890, but they were ~7,600 tons. So it appears they can only exceed the 8,000 ton threshold on initial game start with ships laid down in the late 1880s.
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Post by cormallen on Aug 8, 2023 10:33:29 GMT -6
Point of order for the auto-generation: Britain built ships of this layout in my game as I said, after 1890, but they were ~7,600 tons. So it appears they can only exceed the 8,000 ton threshold on initial game start with ships laid down in the late 1880s. I don't think the game makes any checks for legality of legacy designs so if there's an "illegal" layout it will happily include them. They'll be classed as CLs or CAs basically regardless? You may have trouble with refits of course! The 8k CL limit is a treaty thing maybe? As I said though, the big RN protected cruisers were built in lieu of actual "Armoured Cruisers" ( with belts) so it's fine if the game called them whatever... |
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Post by voelfgar on Aug 8, 2023 16:09:31 GMT -6
Just saw an issue today tried out A-H in 1900, let the game auto generate the fleet and it gave me a bunch of 400 ton Destroyers even though it hadn't been researched and it even let me build new ones using local docks. But I couldn't design a 400 ton Destroyer.
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Post by williammiller on Aug 12, 2023 10:15:43 GMT -6
Just saw an issue today tried out A-H in 1900, let the game auto generate the fleet and it gave me a bunch of 400 ton Destroyers even though it hadn't been researched and it even let me build new ones using local docks. But I couldn't design a 400 ton Destroyer. Can you post/link to the save for this if possible? Would help us to track down what is going on. Thanks! |
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Post by voelfgar on Aug 13, 2023 12:11:20 GMT -6
Just saw an issue today tried out A-H in 1900, let the game auto generate the fleet and it gave me a bunch of 400 ton Destroyers even though it hadn't been researched and it even let me build new ones using local docks. But I couldn't design a 400 ton Destroyer. Can you post/link to the save for this if possible? Would help us to track down what is going on. Thanks! I've also attached screenshots. Part 1 of 3 Attachments:
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Post by voelfgar on Aug 13, 2023 12:12:16 GMT -6
Just saw an issue today tried out A-H in 1900, let the game auto generate the fleet and it gave me a bunch of 400 ton Destroyers even though it hadn't been researched and it even let me build new ones using local docks. But I couldn't design a 400 ton Destroyer. Can you post/link to the save for this if possible? Would help us to track down what is going on. Thanks! Part 2 of 3 2 more screenshots. In the last screenshot, I created those 3 panther destroyers. Attachments:
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