My Ship Design Competition.....with myself.

[oldpop2000]

I decided to change this thread. It will be my ship design competition with me. It will be fun.... I hope. Historically this is when the aircraft carrier began to evolve and battleships really grew with oil firing, better fire control. OK.

Here is my first entry from Italy. Its the BC Emanuele Filberto. The game is new so my gun caliber is a little wanting. But she has good speed and adequate range for the enclosed, narrow Mediterranean.

BTW, you can submit your designs, if you choose.

[dorn]

Oct 7, 2023 7:09:33 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Let's have our own ship design contest. No reward, and we all get a good laugh. C'mon gents, let's get started. Let's try grouping them by 1920's. Historically this is when the aircraft carrier began to evolve and battleships really grew with oil firing, better fire control. OK.

Here is my first entry from Italy. Its the BC Emanuele Filberto. The game is new so my gun caliber is a little wanting. But she has good speed and adequate range for the enclosed, narrow Mediterranean.

View Attachment

I would remove upper belt and make her armour scheme AoN. The flat deck on top of belt without BE and DE will be very problematic for her as her main advantage is speed but she will lost it quickly after some hits on BE/DE.

[oldpop2000]

Oct 7, 2023 11:06:19 GMT -6 dorn said:

Oct 7, 2023 7:09:33 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Let's have our own ship design contest. No reward, and we all get a good laugh. C'mon gents, let's get started. Let's try grouping them by 1920's. Historically this is when the aircraft carrier began to evolve and battleships really grew with oil firing, better fire control. OK.

Here is my first entry from Italy. Its the BC Emanuele Filberto. The game is new so my gun caliber is a little wanting. But she has good speed and adequate range for the enclosed, narrow Mediterranean.

View Attachment

I would remove upper belt and make her armour scheme AoN. The flat deck on top of belt without BE and DE will be very problematic for her as her main advantage is speed but she will lost it quickly after some hits on BE/DE.

Will do and I will put the ship design up here for appraisal. Thanks

How's this

[oldpop2000]

Ok, here is a completely crazy and unique design. I haven't mastered this catamaran design, but I am working on it.

Yes, it is legal and I am going to build one.

Update: Here is my good catamaran design

Now if I could only figure out how to make a round battleship.

[oldpop2000]

Alright, here is my first catamaran light carrier. I can't build it yet, but I can practice designing them. It carriers 40 aircraft.

[wlbjork]

I did devise 2 designs for the official competition, but ultimately opted not to enter.

For the 1890 design:


My standard Colonial Battleship design for GB. Designed to provide an intimidating presence in the Mediterranean (and a few other locations) at a fairly cheap cost.


In 1920, I chose instead to go for:

With a mass of 16 12" guns, it is intended to drown it's opponents in a sea of shells. I must admit, the secondary (casemate) armour is very much on the light side but I was also trying to keep the ship somewhat affordable.

[oldpop2000]

Well, I am venturing into the world of Catamaran Tin Cans. Here is my first attempt. I am building this vessel.

  

[ewaldvonkleist]

Oct 17, 2023 10:40:41 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

I did devise 2 designs for the official competition, but ultimately opted not to enter.

For the 1890 design:
View Attachment

My standard Colonial Battleship design for GB. Designed to provide an intimidating presence in the Mediterranean (and a few other locations) at a fairly cheap cost.


In 1920, I chose instead to go for:
View Attachment
With a mass of 16 12" guns, it is intended to drown it's opponents in a sea of shells. I must admit, the secondary (casemate) armour is very much on the light side but I was also trying to keep the ship somewhat affordable.

1) Why 3in armour for secondaries? 2in already stops splinters. 
2) Why not max out HAA from tertiary guns? 
3) Is this ship supposed to be the main battleship or more of a colonial cruiser scare? If the first one, 12in imho is too small a calibre for 1920. Your turret placement also leads to bad firing arcs. Personally I would up the calibre and remove the center turret. If your strategy focuses on light forces, cruisers amd CVs you might get away with this ship, but from my experience the 12in guns are bad even in the 1910s at achieving anything more than slight speed reduction of enemy ships. Again, if your only use for BBs is blockade value and to slow down ships from the enemy battleline, 12in might be ok.
4) You can make the ship a bit bigger, so I would set BE=B=12in. Props for 2in DE armour.
5) Why no inclined belt?
6) 90 shells not enough imho, especially if you have particular ammo settings. 110 better, I always chose 120-140 but I also play two quadruple turrets all forward only.
7) I would leave more reserve displacement for future aircraft, engine+speed and DP/AA refits. 
8) 6in gun is probably the best gun in the game. I always try to max it out and unless you micromanage your escorts, your capital ships must defend themselves with secondary guns since the AI is completely incapable at using friendly light forces to shield your capital ships from torpedo attacks. 

[oldpop2000]

Oct 17, 2023 10:40:41 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

I did devise 2 designs for the official competition, but ultimately opted not to enter.

For the 1890 design:
View Attachment

My standard Colonial Battleship design for GB. Designed to provide an intimidating presence in the Mediterranean (and a few other locations) at a fairly cheap cost.


In 1920, I chose instead to go for:
View Attachment
With a mass of 16 12" guns, it is intended to drown it's opponents in a sea of shells. I must admit, the secondary (casemate) armour is very much on the light side but I was also trying to keep the ship somewhat affordable.

Here are some of my suggestions based on the historical idea that a warship is balance of speed, firepower and protection. This is for the 1890 design

1. Use normal freeboard

2. Increase range to medium

3. change engine priority to normal

4. Add a 9 inch turret aft.

5. Eliminate tertiary guns- this isn't the time for aircraft.

6. Try to get more speed. At least to 19 or 20 knots

7. Make sure there is a Bar on board.

[oldpop2000]

Oct 17, 2023 10:40:41 GMT -6 wlbjork said:

I did devise 2 designs for the official competition, but ultimately opted not to enter.

For the 1890 design:
View Attachment

My standard Colonial Battleship design for GB. Designed to provide an intimidating presence in the Mediterranean (and a few other locations) at a fairly cheap cost.


In 1920, I chose instead to go for:
View Attachment
With a mass of 16 12" guns, it is intended to drown it's opponents in a sea of shells. I must admit, the secondary (casemate) armour is very much on the light side but I was also trying to keep the ship somewhat affordable.

For the 1920 design:

1. Use inclined belt

2. Check the armor piercing for the 12 inch gun. If it is less that the 12 inches of armor, reduce the belt.

3. Eliminate Deck extend with AON armour scheme

.

4. Increase the rounds for the main guns to at least 140

5. Eliminate tertiary guns and use AA guns light and medium

6. Reduce the 6 inch guns down to maybe 10.

7 Try to get more speed for this ship, if she has to protect carriers, she will need the extra speed.

8. Install a bar

[wlbjork]

Oct 17, 2023 17:34:37 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Here are some of my suggestions based on the historical idea that a warship is balance of speed, firepower and protection. This is for the 1890 design

1. Use normal freeboard

2. Increase range to medium

3. change engine priority to normal

4. Add a 9 inch turret aft.

5. Eliminate tertiary guns- this isn't the time for aircraft.

6. Try to get more speed. At least to 19 or 20 knots

7. Make sure there is a Bar on board.

The goal was a 6,000t warship. I could squeeze all that in (bar losing the 2" guns) - at the cost of reducing the protection scheme to Protected Cruiser, sacrificing BE, UB and DE armour entirely and dropping all other armour (except B) to 2". Oh, and either reducing main gun calibre to 8" or mounting the 9" guns in open barbettes.

The 2" guns are to fend off early Torpedo Boats (which, admittedly don't exist in game) and will be useful for fending off first generation DDs. Consideration was given to up-gunning to 3" but that is only manageable with the 9" open barbette design.

Edit: Cost rose, presumably due to the sheer cost of the engines, from 20,038 to 21,123 despite downgrading the guns to 8" or - for the 9" guns in open barbettes with 3" tertiaries - 21,163.

TBH, this is probably one of the biggest challenges available - how do you design a capable B on a 6,000t hull?

Oct 17, 2023 17:39:57 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

For the 1920 design:

1. Use inclined belt

2. Check the armor piercing for the 12 inch gun. If it is less that the 12 inches of armor, reduce the belt.

3. Eliminate Deck extend with AON armour scheme

.

4. Increase the rounds for the main guns to at least 140

5. Eliminate tertiary guns and use AA guns light and medium

6. Reduce the 6 inch guns down to maybe 10.

7 Try to get more speed for this ship, if she has to protect carriers, she will need the extra speed.

8. Install a bar

Forgot I could use inclined armour, thanks!

In 1920, a 12" gun can penetrate 13" of armour at 8,000 yards. Risky enough I'll pay the penalty.

True, DE is a rare hit location. That freed up 400t, so I could drop size slightly to make her class a little cheaper.

No Medium AA yet, but I was thinking the Light was also greyed out and it isn't. Oops! The converted 12-pounders stay though. A .303 Lewis gun won't scare an airship!

If the guns were in turrets, I'd drop the number. As they're in casemates, I'll take a few more to give me a better chance of getting 4 capable of hitting a target.

Carriers? Those things flying those fancy-dancy kites with engines? Bah, this is a warship, not a baby-sitter!

It's a Royal Navy ship. Bars are fitted as standard - and she'll more likely have 2-3.

[oldpop2000]

Here is my design for an 1890's Pre-dreadnought

As you can see, I removed the tertiary guns. The 4 inch guns and possibly machine guns can handle the MTB's because the range of 1890 torpedoes was not long so the boats had to get close. I also reduced the 4 inch guns. This ship should have escorts to protect her from MTB's. Range of 14 inch torpedo in 1890 was about 440 yards at 29 knots or 225-550 yards at 25.9 knots. As you can see, a 4 inch gun and machine gun could deal with these MTB's due to the torpedo range.

I added a second aft 9 inch gun for firepower.

Freeboard is normal and range is medium to make this boat more useful. I used protected cruiser armor scheme and eliminated the upper belt and deck extended. Speed is the same but ok.

[ewaldvonkleist]

Here is my minmaxed design for the 1890 start. Free weight is 50t or so.

The uniform all-round armour makes the ship resistant to pretty much everything. The only threat are lucky hits that cause water break-ins or fires.

The 6in gun is the best gun in the game even for Battleships until the bigger quality 0 guns appear. The main artillery therefore is minimized. The ship has 6 torpedo tubes for the finishing blow. The large number of secondary guns means that you can operate without CLs and CAs. Which has the added benefit that the battle generator's only choice is to spawn your Bs all the time.


Here is my design for the ship design contest and its text:

1st Design: 1920, no treaty, HMS Pursuer
Also known as "Jacky Fisher's redemption". Always in pursuit of innovation, he created the first all-forward fast battleship that combines the best protection with actual protection. Ship design and name emphasize the continued self-image of the Royal Navy to be the one that routs the others.

[wlbjork]

Oct 18, 2023 9:35:17 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Here is my design for an 1890's Pre-dreadnought

View Attachment

As you can see, I removed the tertiary guns. The 4 inch guns and possibly machine guns can handle the MTB's because the range of 1890 torpedoes was not long so the boats had to get close. I also reduced the 4 inch guns. This ship should have escorts to protect her from MTB's. Range of 14 inch torpedo in 1890 was about 440 yards at 29 knots or 225-550 yards at 25.9 knots. As you can see, a 4 inch gun and machine gun could deal with these MTB's due to the torpedo range.

I added a second aft 9 inch gun for firepower.

Freeboard is normal and range is medium to make this boat more useful. I used protected cruiser armor scheme and eliminated the upper belt and deck extended. Speed is the same but ok.

Yeah, even in the 1930s with Oil-Fired Turbines and several other advances in machinery weight, you're only getting at most another knot or two of speed out of her. Very much dead end - but when she's not intended as a front line combatant that's not so big an issue.

[beagle]

Mr. Kleist, I like your 1920 design, is it legal? If so, how did you make the game accept the combo of quad A turret, 26 knots, and TPS2?