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Post by bcoopactual on Oct 12, 2018 18:49:35 GMT -6
Not sure why cruiser designs never adopted the concept but I'm assuming that it was because cruisers were not intended to fight in a line of battle and were more likely to be involved in independent operations and so the weakness of not having any rear coverage of the main guns would be more serious. Tone and Chikuma were all-forwards, though I don't know if that was for reasons of weight or to free up room for the catapults and floatplane park. Yes, I forgot about them but I think the latter was the consideration not the former. If I recall, they operated pretty exclusively with the carrier task forces to provide scouting planes since that was Japanese doctrine through most of the war.
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Post by director on Oct 13, 2018 20:01:02 GMT -6
I've built all-forward CAs in the late (post-1925) game with the rationale of giving them a large floatplane contingent for scouting. The Japanese did make good use of 'Tone' and 'Chikuma' in that way but I believe they'd probably have gotten more cost-effective ships by down-sizing the armament to 6" or even 5".
Given that the game tends not to include CAs in missions very much after 1918 or so, I found the all-forward CAs to be excellent colonial service ships. I don't remember the lack of rear fire being an issue.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Oct 13, 2018 23:19:17 GMT -6
I think the Japanese should file a complaint about the ammo they procured, or perhaps just shut down the factory. Yes, the ship was swiftly doomed, but that's an embarrassing lack of penetration for circa 1940.
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Post by bcoopactual on Oct 14, 2018 0:21:18 GMT -6
Maybe they put a titanium bathtub around the engine room?
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Post by aeson on Oct 14, 2018 13:04:53 GMT -6
235 yards is something like half a ship-length. At such a short range, it's very easy for shell trajectories to be very poor for armor penetration - consider that if your ship is parallel to the target, half a ship-length away, and half a ship-length ahead, A and B turrets have to turn something close to 135 degrees from the bow in order to hit the target and shells fired by their guns will have something like a 45 degree angle of impact/obliquity. If your target is end-on to your ship with its axis in line with your midships rather than showing its broadside, then the turrets furthest to the ends of your ship have the best angles for penetrating the target's armor while the turrets closer to your midships have worse angles, and if you're only half a ship-length away you're working with angles of impact of 45 degrees or less in such a situation.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Oct 14, 2018 18:11:48 GMT -6
235 yards is something like half a ship-length. At such a short range, it's very easy for shell trajectories to be very poor for armor penetration - consider that if your ship is parallel to the target, half a ship-length away, and half a ship-length ahead, A and B turrets have to turn something close to 135 degrees from the bow in order to hit the target and shells fired by their guns will have something like a 45 degree angle of impact/obliquity. If your target is end-on to your ship with its axis in line with your midships rather than showing its broadside, then the turrets furthest to the ends of your ship have the best angles for penetrating the target's armor while the turrets closer to your midships have worse angles, and if you're only half a ship-length away you're working with angles of impact of 45 degrees or less in such a situation. Top notch there. That is a perfectly rational explanation.
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Post by aeson on Oct 14, 2018 22:18:56 GMT -6
Well, you have some excuse this time, but couldn't you lookouts tell me that the enemy column was ahead before we started passing through it?
Also, Battle Cruiser Division 9, would it have killed you to be Core on Battle Cruiser Division 5 rather than way out ahead in the van of the fleet? They're only 12nmi behind you ... Then again, that might've just meant my other three battlecruisers were endangered from mission start, too.
Edit: Same game, another battle in the same area. My battlecruisers took five torpedo hits. Four of them were from my own ships - including one incident where one battlecruiser torpedoed another battlecruiser.
At least none of them sank, this time.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Oct 15, 2018 6:59:18 GMT -6
Holy Crap. If that wasn't deep ocean scuba divers would be diving that for decades, with so many hulks in proximity.
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Post by aeson on Oct 15, 2018 7:58:00 GMT -6
Holy Crap. If that wasn't deep ocean scuba divers would be diving that for decades, with so many hulks in proximity. It was somewhere in the middle of the Baltic. I think off the Lithuania, but I don't remember exactly. There's another probably more accessible collection of about a dozen or so Russian capital ships off Hiiumaa and Saarema that were added to the seafloor museum over the course of a few engagements.
Also, wow, Italy, what've you been up to this game? I mean, yeah, it's 1949, but your budget's normally down around where the French and Russian budgets are at this point, or maybe a bit lower, not up above Britain's.
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Post by tordenskjold on Oct 16, 2018 9:12:04 GMT -6
September 3, 1911 must have been a very interesting day out in the Caribbean. It would have been easier to see in the dark than in day"light"...
Plus, every time when that old rusty CL stationed on some remote foreign station wins the occasional shooting competition...
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Post by bcoopactual on Oct 16, 2018 15:36:10 GMT -6
September 3, 1911 must have been a very interesting day out in the Caribbean. It would have been easier to see in the dark than in day"light"...
Plus, every time when that old rusty CL stationed on some remote foreign station wins the occasional shooting competition... Well inside hurricane season in the Caribbean which is what it looks like your ships are trying to fight in. LOL, that would just be a painful underway altogether even without a fight.
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Post by aeson on Oct 16, 2018 17:46:24 GMT -6
Fine sailing, gentlemen, fine sailing. You know there's an island dead ahead, yes? The one that's only about 600 yards off the bow?
... How does that joke about the warship and the lighthouse go again?
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Post by dorn on Oct 17, 2018 0:26:45 GMT -6
Fine sailing, gentlemen, fine sailing.
You know there's an island dead ahead, yes? The one that's only about 600 yards off the bow?
... How does that joke about the warship and the lighthouse go again?
New type of ship? Islandbreaker? :-)
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Post by oaktree on Oct 17, 2018 18:55:38 GMT -6
Fine sailing, gentlemen, fine sailing.
You know there's an island dead ahead, yes? The one that's only about 600 yards off the bow?
... How does that joke about the warship and the lighthouse go again?
Your cruiser captain has been playing too much WoW obviously since he likes to get cozy with islands like that.
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Post by aeson on Oct 18, 2018 13:23:19 GMT -6
Your cruiser captain has been playing too much WoW obviously since he likes to get cozy with islands like that. But how else am I supposed to train my captains? Clearly I cannot trust them with actual ships while out of direct supervision, and anyways we already spent the entire training budget getting World of Warships to work on the mechanical fire control computers... You wouldn't believe how unhelpful tech support was for compatibility issues with analog non-programmable computing devices; they kept saying such nonsense as "digital download" and "operating system" and "internet," and the Intelligence section still hasn't discovered what they meant by all that, or what windows have to do with any of it (maybe they meant the panes for the slide projectors?).
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