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Post by goodwood on Feb 4, 2018 20:36:42 GMT -6
I can't build submarines, do I need to research submarines. This in the year 1900.
Also i am new to this forum and I can't find a search button, many thanks in advance Ron
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Post by goodwood on Feb 4, 2018 20:38:25 GMT -6
Dummy me found the search button
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Post by cv10 on Feb 4, 2018 21:08:50 GMT -6
I can't build submarines, do I need to research submarines. This in the year 1900. Also i am new to this forum and I can't find a search button, many thanks in advance Ron You can only build submarines once you have researched the certain types (there are three). Other submarine techs will improve their reliability. The first type that you will get to build will (likely) be Coastal Submarines (SSC).
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Post by goodwood on Feb 4, 2018 22:14:35 GMT -6
thanks
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Post by fredsanford on Feb 4, 2018 22:15:33 GMT -6
Were you posting the last day or so from the Matrix forum? Welcome aboard.
Yeah, subs are few years away for you. Don't expect much from them even then, and fwiw, subs are fairly abstracted in this game.
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Post by goodwood on Feb 5, 2018 0:19:30 GMT -6
Yup, I'm a regular Forum member there
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Post by director on Feb 5, 2018 8:48:28 GMT -6
goodwood - be advised that coastal submarines aren't worth a lot even in your home seazone. To get much use of medium submarines you'll need a lot of them, and once a war starts you will lose subs on a percentage basis every turn even if the enemy is blockaded (which makes no sense, but there it is). Be prepared to build 2-4 subs EVERY TURN (and put some or all of your capital ship construction on hold) or see your sub force rapidly dwindle.
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Post by ieshima on Feb 5, 2018 8:58:51 GMT -6
Normally I just bull my way through the whole "Submarine/ASW patrol" thing with brute force, meaning numbers. A good rule of thumb I've found is that you should always have at least 5 or more subs building at all times, even peace. By the time war rolls around I have dozens of subs read for action.
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Post by bcoopactual on Feb 5, 2018 10:26:35 GMT -6
goodwood , ieshima , welcome to the forum. The three techs you need are Early coastal subs for coastal subs, Medium range subs for Medium range subs like the later WW1 U-boats and Minelaying subs for minelaying submarines. There are quite a few techs between Early Coastal submarines and Medium range submarines. One of those is listed as Coastal submarines. The description says it increases the coastal submarines' range. In either the game manual or a response from the developers on the forum it was stated that coastal subs only work the Ocean Areas of your home territories. However, I've seen them in Northern Europe as a USA player so its possible that the Coastal submarine tech allows coastal subs to operate anywhere you have a base (I had Finland at the time). In the end though all that really means is that medium range submarines are much better at sinking merchants than coastal subs and medium range subs will normally get you events like torpedoed enemy ship XX or sank minesweeper XX in a spirited gun duel more frequently. I'm not quite as pessimistic about submarine losses as director is. My current war with France has been going on for 23 months. I started the war with 21 coastal and 4 medium range subs in commission with another 20 medium range subs building. I've sunk 103 merchant ships and lost 15 (9 coastal, 6 medium) submarines in that time. That's an average loss rate of about one every month-and-a-half. I would expect loss rates to go up as the war goes on though because the AI usually doesn't build a lot of MSs to use as CP/ASW until the war actually starts. So the AI will build more and more ASW ships as its merchant losses continue. I agree with ieshima that it's a good idea to start building another couple of subs right away to make up for expected losses but 5 might be too many for me unless I've actually lost that many and I'm below 24 medium subs. I don't build coastals once I have the medium sub tech and I like to have 24 medium subs in my fleet max to cap the amount of money I'm spending on subs. 5 medium range submarines is $1 million a turn which is about the cost per turn of a good size light cruiser(about 6,000 tons). That's just my perspective, I'm not trying to min/max or claim that it's the most effective way to do it, just giving you some additional data points to work with so you can figure out what works best for you.
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Post by director on Feb 7, 2018 20:22:22 GMT -6
I would say that sub losses are moderate and manageable through the WW1 period and rise sharply as the game goes on.
I also agree that you should keep some subs a-building at all times, else you'll have a year and more of dropping numbers before new construction can begin to make up losses.
One tactic I'd like to try is ignoring subs and using really massive numbers of MS and DD on ASW work - like 4x the required amount or more. Anyone tried that? I know the 'go all in on subs' tactic can win a war.
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Post by Noname117 on Feb 7, 2018 20:31:38 GMT -6
I would say that sub losses are moderate and manageable through the WW1 period and rise sharply as the game goes on. I also agree that you should keep some subs a-building at all times, else you'll have a year and more of dropping numbers before new construction can begin to make up losses. One tactic I'd like to try is ignoring subs and using really massive numbers of MS and DD on ASW work - like 4x the required amount or more. Anyone tried that? I know the 'go all in on subs' tactic can win a war. I mean, there's a reason I don't scrap destroyers and try to refit minesweepers before they get old. Seems to work OK.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Feb 7, 2018 20:59:26 GMT -6
I would say that sub losses are moderate and manageable through the WW1 period and rise sharply as the game goes on. I also agree that you should keep some subs a-building at all times, else you'll have a year and more of dropping numbers before new construction can begin to make up losses. One tactic I'd like to try is ignoring subs and using really massive numbers of MS and DD on ASW work - like 4x the required amount or more. Anyone tried that? I know the 'go all in on subs' tactic can win a war. My submarine policy is to build to the Navy Minister's request to get the budget increase, unless I have so much money I don't know what to do with it. Then in war, if I have more than a page of subs they prize hunt, and as soon as I have only a page or less they go on fleet support. If I feel I *need* subs and have the cash to spare, I'll lay down a couple a month to delay the end of the sub arm. In umpteen games though, I think I can only credit 1 or 2 opponent collapses to the work of my subs. As far as ASW, my minimum is "three at sea" (ASW requirement x3) and the goal is "four or more" (x4). A strong ASW doesn't seem to help my populace (who insist upon their effete and decadent foreign goods no matter how large my empire), but I honestly only lose a capitol ship to enemy subs once every 4 or 5 games. It is so rare that when it happens I think, "aww, really? Nuts."
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Post by bcoopactual on Feb 7, 2018 23:30:43 GMT -6
director, in the same war I described above I have had 3x the required numbers of ships on ASW. I'm at 17 merchants lost to subs vs. 12 enemy submarines sunk. Haven't lost any ships to torpedo events that I recall either. I'll double check next time I'm at my computer and update the post if necessary.
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Post by fredsanford on Feb 8, 2018 8:30:38 GMT -6
Do you also keep plenty of DD's on Active Fleet duty as well? Because I'm under the impression that that helps prevent capital ship loses. I'm not sure if there's some kind of "screening" mechanism going on, or if it's simply a dilution effect- i.e. when a 'sub attack' event strikes, having a bunch of DD's lessens the random chance of the event tagging a more valuable ship.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Feb 8, 2018 8:59:54 GMT -6
Do you also keep plenty of DD's on Active Fleet duty as well? Because I'm under the impression that that helps prevent capital ship loses. I'm not sure if there's some kind of "screening" mechanism going on, or if it's simply a dilution effect- i.e. when a 'sub attack' event strikes, having a bunch of DD's lessens the random chance of the event tagging a more valuable ship. I do. I generally have 18-30 of my most modern DDs on Active with my main fleet, and colonial squadrons get 4-8 depending on budget. Though you make a good point, it is common for me to see a dozen or more DDs had been lost to sub at the end of a 50 year game. I can do a quick summary tonight.
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