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Post by dorn on Mar 26, 2018 1:05:37 GMT -6
Does anybody know if there is any disadvantage to order ship in foreign shipyards except risk of not delivered because of higher tension?
In reality there was not happening as all nations want ships built at home however foreign orders were only if home shipyards were unable to build those ships. From main powers in RTW it was actually only for Japan and Russia where large ships (mainly battleships and armored cruisers) were built elsewhere. However as time progress both these nation were able to build their own capital ships, Russia from dreadnoughts, Japan from battlecruisers of Kongo class. It was matter of nation pride and focus to get local shipbuilding on track.
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Post by bcoopactual on Mar 26, 2018 6:44:15 GMT -6
The only downside I'm sure of other than what you mentioned is that you have to use the building nation's technology levels and guns. Of course, that's only a problem if your tech levels or gun qualities are greater than theirs which probably wouldn't be the case if you needed to build overseas but there might be specific fire control types or TPS, Superfiring B turrets or something the building nation might not have that you do and wouldn't be able to include.
Another concern I might have but am not sure is actually a problem is the Hidden flaw trait for England. I don't know if the propensity to go BOOM is inherent to the designs of their ships themselves or if it just applies to the nation itself (meaning it has more to do with doctrine, procedures and training rather than actual design). I don't know that the developers have said one way or the other.
I would also assume that if you ordered a ship from a nation with undeveloped shipbuilding or poor education you would be more likely to get a bad trait like slower than expected or overweight than you would for a ship you built yourself if your nation doesn't have those traits.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 26, 2018 7:02:19 GMT -6
The only downside I'm sure of other than what you mentioned is that you have to use the building nation's technology levels and guns. Of course, that's only a problem if your tech levels or gun qualities are greater than theirs which probably wouldn't be the case if you needed to build overseas but there might be specific fire control types or TPS, Superfiring B turrets or something the building nation might not have that you do and wouldn't be able to include. Another concern I might have but am not sure is actually a problem is the Hidden flaw trait for England. I don't know if the propensity to go BOOM is inherent to the designs of their ships themselves or if it just applies to the nation itself (meaning it has more to do with doctrine, procedures and training rather than actual design). I don't know that the developers have said one way or the other. I would also assume that if you ordered a ship from a nation with undeveloped shipbuilding or poor education you would be more likely to get a bad trait like slower than expected or overweight than you would for a ship you built yourself if your nation doesn't have those traits. I order English ships quite frequently as my first BC's, and I have never noted an increase "boom" chance, so I feel quite confident in stating that this does not transfer. Also if you order your first BCs "late" (1912) and then manage a limitations treaty, you're golden- your ships will sweep the seas for 2 decades.
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Post by bcoopactual on Mar 26, 2018 7:09:29 GMT -6
That's good to know.
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Post by dorn on Mar 26, 2018 7:19:28 GMT -6
Thanks for the answer. It seems as I thought there is no reason going overseas for ship design in case your technology is backward.
I will suggest for RTW to increase cost a little for foreign designs.
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Post by hidraulicodasilva on Mar 26, 2018 15:00:40 GMT -6
Interesting, I had english built ships go boom far more often than others. Most recently I played with Turkey, had two British made BCs go down to explosions.
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Post by bcoopactual on Mar 26, 2018 16:01:09 GMT -6
Interesting, I had english built ships go boom far more often than others. Most recently I played with Turkey, had two British made BCs go down to explosions. Well then I take back my earlier statement about it being good to know. The hidden flaw trait could certainly follow the ships after construction game-wise since the building nation is identified in the actual ship files used by the game. I guess we'll leave it an open question until either someone does some experimenting or the developers have a moment and offer to clarify. I would certainly keep it as a possibility for now.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 26, 2018 17:38:53 GMT -6
Now wait a minute. I have played *TONS* of games ordering ships from England, and my Turret Flash for capitol ships comes about once every 3 *games*. You give me back my good-to-know!!
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Post by bcoopactual on Mar 26, 2018 17:57:39 GMT -6
*Puts foot down, folds arms across chest* Nope, you can't have it. We officially have contradicting anecdotal evidence. Only three choices available. Developer intervention, large scale experimentation (large for this forum anyway) or Thunderdome!
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 26, 2018 17:59:14 GMT -6
...fine. *snif,whimper* ...exhaustive testing it is then!
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Post by rimbecano on Mar 26, 2018 20:46:31 GMT -6
I think armor may have something to do with it. If turret penetration is rare, then flash fires will be rare. If every turret hit penetrates, then even if you don't have hidden flaws, a flash fire is only a matter of time.
I build my BCs with enough armor that I've seldom had one experience a flash fire, even as England. Enemy BCs, given the AI's typical BC style and the fact that I tend prioritize gun research, tend to pop routinely in the mid-to-late game.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Mar 26, 2018 21:39:07 GMT -6
I think armor may have something to do with it. If turret penetration is rare, then flash fires will be rare. If every turret hit penetrates, then even if you don't have hidden flaws, a flash fire is only a matter of time. I build my BCs with enough armor that I've seldom had one experience a flash fire, even as England. Enemy BCs, given the AI's typical BC style and the fact that I tend prioritize gun research, tend to pop routinely in the mid-to-late game. For what it is worth, I don't have flash fires either and I have had ships built by the British. Armor is a key but also handling procedures and ammunition chemistry. The last two we don't control except for training of the crews. You could reduce certain types of ammunition stored to reduce the possibility but it is actually the powder. It might be possible to change battle tactics to eliminate this kind of turret penetration. If someone is interested, examine the ships that have the flash fires and find out the ammunition load ratios and crew experience, chart it and see if there is any correlation in there along with turret top armor.
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Post by fredsanford on Mar 27, 2018 8:32:50 GMT -6
Just to throw another wrinkle in the equation, under "preferences" there's a check box for "reduced flash fire risk". Different people may or may not have that checked. Personally, I start with it unchecked (i.e. default risk). Once a capital ship is lost to a magazine explosion from gunfire, about 6 months after I check the box and reduce the risk. This is meant in my mind to simulate and investigation and corrective measures being taken to prevent or reduce a recurrence.
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Post by dorn on Mar 27, 2018 11:38:44 GMT -6
Just to throw another wrinkle in the equation, under "preferences" there's a check box for "reduced flash fire risk". Different people may or may not have that checked. Personally, I start with it unchecked (i.e. default risk). Once a capital ship is lost to a magazine explosion from gunfire, about 6 months after I check the box and reduce the risk. This is meant in my mind to simulate and investigation and corrective measures being taken to prevent or reduce a recurrence. I think Frederik mentioned that that code is included in the game that after flash fires the risk of next flash fire is decreasing.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 27, 2018 15:57:06 GMT -6
For reference, I have never checked that box, and I get Primary FF at the rate of about 1 every 2-3 games, Secondary about 1 in 10+ games. Even playing as the English, I have never found FF to be a problem- a tragedy and an inconvenience, yes, but I have never had a "something's wrong with our bloody ships today" moment.
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