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Post by oaktree on Apr 11, 2019 23:10:14 GMT -6
"Tactics for dealing with an enemy ship that falls out of line depend on circumstances. In a stern chase, the situation will generally take care of itself: just follow the main formation, and each of your ships will use the straggler for target practice as they pass. In other situations, the options available to you will depend somewhat on the difficulty level you're playing at (which determines how much you can micromanage your fleet)."
I quoted this for two reasons: 1. Your ships will "waste" ammo on obviously sinking ships when there are better targets just a little distance further away. Division target orders might help with this, but often is ignored in order to fire at the closest target. This also works both ways since you will see the AI continue to shoot at some of your already sinking ships as well. So a consideration is how maneuvering will get your ships clear of unworthy targets.
2. Sometimes a crippled straggler is not so crippled. A power or engine failure can get suddenly repaired. Or that crippled ship you are passing in pursuit of their fleet just happens to have some loaded torpedo tubes still able to fire as you go by in range.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Apr 12, 2019 2:56:48 GMT -6
wait; how can I check the ammo levels of individual guns? You can't, unless you're using individually-mounted main battery guns.
You can see ammunition state for a particular main battery turret - and for the main battery as a whole - by opening the ship status screen in combat (right-click on the ship icon in the main window; right click on a division flag in the main window and double click on a ship name in the division menu; go to the OOB tab, expand the lists until you find the ship you want, right-click on it, and select Status). You can also see the overall ammunition state for the secondary and tertiary batteries, but not for individual secondary or tertiary turrets or guns.
The numbers are: AP shells remaining / HE shells remaining / SAP shells remaining (percentage of nominal ammunition load remaining).
The number in parenthesis after each of the torpedo mounts (in this case, the two submerged tubes) indicates whether or not there are torpedoes in the tubes; submerged tubes can in theory be reloaded a couple of times whereas above-water swivel-mounted tubes are one-shot weapons.
funny in spite of my billions of hours playing this game i almost never look at this screen, but now that you'v shown the ammo loadouts that i never noticed before i now have a reason to check this screen more - thanks!
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Post by dorn on Apr 12, 2019 4:39:44 GMT -6
You can't, unless you're using individually-mounted main battery guns.
You can see ammunition state for a particular main battery turret - and for the main battery as a whole - by opening the ship status screen in combat (right-click on the ship icon in the main window; right click on a division flag in the main window and double click on a ship name in the division menu; go to the OOB tab, expand the lists until you find the ship you want, right-click on it, and select Status). You can also see the overall ammunition state for the secondary and tertiary batteries, but not for individual secondary or tertiary turrets or guns.
The numbers are: AP shells remaining / HE shells remaining / SAP shells remaining (percentage of nominal ammunition load remaining).
The number in parenthesis after each of the torpedo mounts (in this case, the two submerged tubes) indicates whether or not there are torpedoes in the tubes; submerged tubes can in theory be reloaded a couple of times whereas above-water swivel-mounted tubes are one-shot weapons.
funny in spite of my billions of hours playing this game i almost never look at this screen, but now that you'v shown the ammo loadouts that i never noticed before i now have a reason to check this screen more - thanks! This is the most interesting screen during battle as it gives you information about accuracy and ROF, especially if smoke decreases gunnery accuracy.
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Post by mdesanta on Apr 22, 2019 6:23:57 GMT -6
Play in captain's mode to correctly simulate the fact that you are representing 20+ thinking brains, and not just one thinking brain leading a bunch of incompetents that should never even have the right to drive much less graduate from the naval academy.
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Post by thenewteddy on Apr 22, 2019 6:28:24 GMT -6
Play in captain's mode to correctly simulate the fact that you are representing 20+ thinking brains, and not just one thinking brain leading a bunch of incompetents that should never even have the right to drive much less graduate from the naval academy. for some reason this makes me think of the 2nd baltic squadron, and its journey, as outlined by the famous drachinifel video on youtube.
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Post by bcoopactual on Apr 22, 2019 7:32:33 GMT -6
Play in captain's mode to correctly simulate the fact that you are representing 20+ thinking brains, and not just one thinking brain leading a bunch of incompetents that should never even have the right to drive much less graduate from the naval academy. LOL. To be fair to the AI, I believe it gets much better as your Fleet Tactics technology improves during the game but I understand that one person's "good" doesn't necessarily meet the same standard for someone else. But it might not be as much of an aberration compared to real life as you may think. If you haven't already read it, I highly recommend Andrew Gordon's Rules of the Game: Jutland and British Naval Command. It's hard for me to do it justice but essentially the Royal Navy was a victim of its own success and going into the beginning of the 20th century it had been unchallenged at sea for the better part of 100 years. Because they didn't have a challenger in all that time they lost the spirit of Nelson and the RN organizationally and culturally stifled all initiative. The result was still felt at Jutland.
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Post by ieshima on Apr 22, 2019 21:05:29 GMT -6
Play in captain's mode to correctly simulate the fact that you are representing 20+ thinking brains, and not just one thinking brain leading a bunch of incompetents that should never even have the right to drive much less graduate from the naval academy. for some reason this makes me think of the 2nd baltic squadron, and its journey, as outlined by the famous drachinifel video on youtube. Every time one of your ships screws up, a tiny pixelated admiral shrieks expletives at it and hurls a pair of binoculars over the side.
Actually, thinking about it, Kamchatka would explain a large amount of those "Relations with nation X have taken a turn for the worse"
"Hey boss, guess what! We just sank a group of Japanese battleships that thought they could disguise themselves as a French yacht!"
<Incoherent screaming>
"I think he's happy!"
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 22, 2019 21:44:56 GMT -6
I seem to be truly awful at this; and am looking for any tips. As a secondary/bonus question; were WW1 era battles really like this? If you zoom out far enough during a battle to where its just dots, it was like two groups of ants running around all over the place but moving in pack formation. Is that what WW1 battles really would have looked like or is that just how the game works? I don't think you are terribly awful at naval battles. You just need to avoid them if possible. Naval battles are organized chaos. The side that wins generally has made the fewest mistakes and taken the chaos and used it to their advantage. I don't fight many naval battles. If I see a lone cruiser sailing toward my fleet and the scenario was a cruiser battle, it bothers me. I know that 9 times out of 10, that is a scout cruiser and the enemy fleet is waiting behind it. So, I avoid it. If I play Japan, Italy, AH, or even Germany, I know that I am at a disadvantage against the US, France and England. So the smart thing is to avoid wars with them, if possible. If you can't, then pick their merchants and small cruiser squadrons off one by one. Don't let them suck you into a major naval battle. If you study history, specifically naval history, the number of major naval battles in the industrial age, and age of steam and iron, is minimal. Anyway, this is just my opinion and my crazy way of playing.
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Post by vladut101 on May 10, 2019 6:44:54 GMT -6
Stupid question probably:
In battle I keep getting good results but in the last ones I have a big issue. I've engaged with 6 B's along with other (CA,CL and DD). The issue is that it split my B force in two without being able to control the other. Whatever I do it leaves 2 ships in my control and the rest of 4 on AI separate control. And the AI tends to go into torps , with B's and Cruisers. I keep losing 1-2 ships to torps right away independent of my control. And I cannot set all B's under my control in one division.
I've looked into preferences and other info but I'm new with this and I do not seem to get a grip on how to handle this.
Please help !
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Post by dorn on May 10, 2019 7:00:22 GMT -6
Stupid question probably: In battle I keep getting good results but in the last ones I have a big issue. I've engaged with 6 B's along with other (CA,CL and DD). The issue is that it split my B force in two without being able to control the other. Whatever I do it leaves 2 ships in my control and the rest of 4 on AI separate control. And the AI tends to go into torps , with B's and Cruisers. I keep losing 1-2 ships to torps right away independent of my control. And I cannot set all B's under my control in one division. I've looked into preferences and other info but I'm new with this and I do not seem to get a grip on how to handle this. Please help !
The game simulate you are the admiral and you issue order from one flag ship. It allows you control your flagship and flagship of scouting force. To have scouting force (CA or BC separated to scout force) you need to invented "scout force" in branch "Fleet tactics".
However you have still option in preferences to change it. In the second column there is "Realism setting" where you have 3 options: Admiral - you can issue orders only to flag ship of your main force and scouting force Real Admiral - same as Admiral and on top of it you can issue orders to any flag ship of any division which is in sight range from your flagship Captain - you can individually order any ship and even choose targets and fire torpedoes manually
Choose what suits you best, but Admiral setting gives you some challange as it simulates all the issues Admirals have on sea including not commanding all ships individually and coordination problems which were in reality quite severe.
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Post by aeson on May 10, 2019 7:26:49 GMT -6
Stupid question probably: In battle I keep getting good results but in the last ones I have a big issue. I've engaged with 6 B's along with other (CA,CL and DD). The issue is that it split my B force in two without being able to control the other. Whatever I do it leaves 2 ships in my control and the rest of 4 on AI separate control. And the AI tends to go into torps , with B's and Cruisers. I keep losing 1-2 ships to torps right away independent of my control. And I cannot set all B's under my control in one division. I've looked into preferences and other info but I'm new with this and I do not seem to get a grip on how to handle this. Please help ! If the battleships are in the same force, you can set the out-of-control division's lead formation to the division that you control and its role to Core (right-click on the division flag, or go to the OB tab, right-click on the division name, and select Status), which should cause it to follow the division under your control. Note that each division can only be followed by one Core division; if you want to have multiple Core divisions following the leader, you will need C to follow B while B follows A. Also note that signalling errors, visibility issues, and speed disparity can break up formations. If the ships are in two different forces - for example, in the screenshot above I have a main force (USA) consisting of two battlecruisers in a single division and a secondary force (Support Force) consisting of one battlecruiser in its own separate division - then you cannot order the divisions that are not under your control to follow those that are; at best, you can give orders to the division(s) under your control so as to make one force conform to the maneuvers of the other force. You can turn off player-side Support Forces under Options, but I think that that just prevents ships that would be in a player-side Support Force from showing up for an engagement rather than joining them to a player-controlled formation.
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Post by vladut101 on May 10, 2019 15:27:45 GMT -6
Hmmm tried some of the stuff above and managed to get a good result , lost 2 CA's but got them for a BC,B,CL,DD and 2 Merchants. Communication is pretty difficult and B's suddenly go off losing contact. CA's got caught up by DD's and torpedoed but that happens. Is there a way to save one that has survived the battle but sinks on the way back. We were so close but seconds from finishing the scenario it sunk. Any tips ? Just my 2 cents, but being able to set your organization should be something to put in RTW 2. It is a bit clunky and units dettache for the crazyest reaoons and in the most inoportune moments. Also the lineup kind of random , in my last battle it put me with 3 DD's against 3 DD's and 2 CL. Couldn't get close to do nothing. How does the game randomize these encounters, sometimes it feels unbalanced and there were many times that it put you against a bigger enemy in your waters. That would be a stretch close to your bases.
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Post by dorn on May 10, 2019 23:58:25 GMT -6
It depends of realismus settings.
However generally you need to decrease speed to 9 knots maximum. If you have captain or rear admiral settings it is possible as long as you stay with your flag ship in visual range.
It helps limit flooding but there is nothing certain.
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Post by gimlet on May 12, 2019 11:43:55 GMT -6
Also, when you suspect torpedoes are incoming, click the "turn together" checkbox down in the lower left, and hard turn the lead division of your battleline away. That way most of your ships will turn immediately instead of trying to maintain "line ahead". I advance time turn by turn (press the 1 key to go 1 turn at a time) when it's dangerous like that, because even 1 turn delay can miss your chance to turn and evade...
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Post by aardvark on Jun 10, 2019 15:35:39 GMT -6
so with that aim in mind a few questions that probably have super obvious answers but which I have no idea about: what should I try to do? should I try to run parallel to the enemy so I can broadside him? You probably want to run more or less parallel (but keeping at a safe range). You can, for the selected ship, click on a button on the toolbar which shows your ship in an inset diagram, and see if all the turrets are trained on the enemy. What is a safe range? Generally, you want to keep heavy cruisers and larger ships outside of torpedo range of destroyers. You can, based on your gun penetrations, figure out what your immunity zone is and try to keep there. (Immunity zone is where his guns can't penetrate your ship, but hopefully you can penetrate his.) In general, though, if you have heavier guns and/or armor than him, engage at a long range. Neither of you will hit much, but your hits will do more. If you have lighter guns and/or armor, either close quickly (and you will probably get heavily damaged), or run away.what speed should we run at? is there a "too fast?" and a "too slow?" In general, you want to maintain a speed a knot or two below squadron maximum, so that all the ships in the formation can keep in station. If your lead division is faster than your supports (for example, you have a battle-line of 23 knot dreadnaughts, and a support division of 21 knot Light Cruisers) you may want to slow down a bit. Before contact with the enemy, you might want to stick to 20 knots (once your ships have speed 23 or higher) to avoid breakdowns, and when you have broken contact and the enemy isn't pursuing, you can even bring it down to "cruise speed" to save fuel. The only time I reduce speed much below cruise is either when bombarding a shore target unopposed (having sunk all opposing ships, and if there are no land batteries), or occasionally when finishing off a crippled foe with gunfire. You might also slow down when escorting a convoy so you don't get too far ahead.
assuming all my guns are working, is there any use to turning my ships facing the other way, or (assuming my guns all keep working) should I keep the same side pointed at the enemy? If you are much faster than the enemy, but can't (due to land, for example) actually cross in front of him (aka "cross his T"), you might reverse course. If you are pursuing a slower enemy and are in his stern, you might weave back and forth in an "S" pattern, turning toward him each time, so that you are usually getting broadsides against him, but he is only firing his stern guns at you. This is usually better than pulling even with him. This can also, sometimes work if he is trying to close with you, and you want to maintain the range. In this case you make the S pattern turning away from him each time. This is what Togo did to the Russian 3rd Fleet at Tsushima. The final time you might reverse is if both fleets are meeting head on, and you guess wrong as to which way the enemy turns. If you find yourself parallel to him but going in the opposite direction, you might reverse course.when I manage to get an enemy ship way out of the line of battle, and its all alone; what is the best way to sink it? should I circle it at close range? should I ram it? Don't ram it. These ships were not built for ramming. (Although most of those built in the 1880s were.) The best thing to do is to send destroyers after it and sink it with torpedoes, especially if it is still firing back, and especially if it is a light cruiser or destroyer. I lost too many battleships closing in against a crippled cruiser only to get hit with a torpedo. This is a good time to use the "flotilla attack" button, since, IIRC, one of their preferences is for ships moving at slow speed.is there a "rock, paper, scissors" to naval warfare; or should I match like with like? for example, should I send in my DD to sink his BB or take on his BB with my BB? Both. Battleships fight battleships. Battlecruisers and heavy cruisers are there to destroy light cruisers, and to be heavy scouting units, but should avoid the main battleline. Light cruisers can take on destroyers via gun-fire, and protect you heavier ships that way. Destroyers generally fight each other, and are used to take on anything at close range (usually at night.) They are great for dealing with cripples which have dropped behind, and are also very useful to cover your main fleet's retreat, since an attack by a bunch of destroyers generally results in the enemy battleline taking evasive action.how can I tell what his ship stats are; I know how to view what guns they have, but how can I tell what their sighting range is? His siting range is about the same as yours. The range at which he can identify your ships depends on crew training, which you don't know.lastly, is there any way I can have the AI run my ships; all of them, including my flagship, so I can watch what it does and try to learn from it? Not that I know of.
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