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Post by broadsides on Jul 31, 2020 13:01:48 GMT -6
The zones need to take the monthly length of the turn into consideration. A zone in the 'mid-Atlantic' would add a dimension but it would effectively delay going from the UK to the US by a month. Ok for sailing ships but not a WW2 period of ships and speeds. To split the Northern European zone would mean it would take two months to go from the UK to the Baltic Sea and back. A little longer than real life. To split the Mediterranean into 3 zones it would take two months to go from eastern Med to Western and back again. Three months to go Eastern to Adriatic then Adriatic to Western, then back home to Eastern Mediterranean.
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Post by aquelarrefox on Aug 29, 2020 8:30:07 GMT -6
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 9, 2020 7:52:03 GMT -6
i edited Map v3+ black sea, adding baltic and adriatic, im testing it. the maps looks like this: i was thinking to add a north sea... but im not sure. Adding black sea let russia have a close base to asia as home. Baltic make harder block russia exept for germany (you need to move ships in a low capacity zone), some with austria, italy and the adriatic. The north sea should be acessible by the french and british could move ships from one coast ot the other in the month frame. splitting med is like dia said. But its true you get hard a egypt invasion, someting real that could be very interesting to see, thats much factible than north sea. the artic only have sense if add mursmask and north ports, but convoys theres are not quiety good for the game as is, dont seems good to me
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Post by seawolf on Sept 9, 2020 18:49:24 GMT -6
i edited Map v3+ black sea, adding baltic and adriatic, im testing it. the maps looks like this: i was thinking to add a north sea... but im not sure. Adding black sea let russia have a close base to asia as home. Baltic make harder block russia exept for germany (you need to move ships in a low capacity zone), some with austria, italy and the adriatic. The north sea should be acessible by the french and british could move ships from one coast ot the other in the month frame. splitting med is like dia said. But its true you get hard a egypt invasion, someting real that could be very interesting to see, thats much factible than north sea. the artic only have sense if add mursmask and north ports, but convoys theres are not quiety good for the game as is, dont seems good to me Have you had any of the mentioned issues with the new home areas?
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Post by dia on Sept 9, 2020 20:27:04 GMT -6
I'm kind of getting on board with a separate Adriatic Sea and to a lesser extent a separate Baltic Sea. However, I'm still concerned about move times. Have you factored in how the new move times will impact gameplay? Personally I find a two-month transit time from the Med to Northern Europe and the six month transit from the Japan to Northern Europe absolutely excessive. And the Suez Canal only shortens the trip by a month. A trip from southeast Asia to the East Coast USA takes five months on this map via the Med. The Great White Fleet did that trip, with port stops, in three months.
I also don't think South Pacific and Polynesia should be separate sea zones, this coming from someone who frequently fights there.
Lastly, while I like the increased possessions, there are simply way too many possessions in the Black Sea. I get that you're trying to make a possession out of as many coastal territory/ neutral countries as you can, but there really doesn't need to be more than a few bases there in the first place.
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Post by seawolf on Sept 9, 2020 22:31:32 GMT -6
I'm kind of getting on board with a separate Adriatic Sea and to a lesser extent a separate Baltic Sea. However, I'm still concerned about move times. Have you factored in how the new move times will impact gameplay? Personally I find a two-month transit time from the Med to Northern Europe and the six month transit from the Japan to Northern Europe absolutely excessive. And the Suez Canal only shortens the trip by a month. A trip from southeast Asia to the East Coast USA takes five months on this map via the Med. The Great White Fleet did that trip, with port stops, in three months. I also don't think South Pacific and Polynesia should be separate sea zones, this coming from someone who frequently fights there. Lastly, while I like the increased possessions, there are simply way too many possessions in the Black Sea. I get that you're trying to make a possession out of as many coastal territory/ neutral countries as you can, but there really doesn't need to be more than a few bases there in the first place. Move times can be shortened by adding connections between non-adjacent regions
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Post by generalvikus on Sept 10, 2020 1:19:33 GMT -6
Yeah, each region could connect both the to the first and second adjacent regions in order to halve transit times.
I think there's a good case to be made for a North Sea zone; like the Baltic and Adriatic, it's a confined area whose geography has a big impact on how battles play out. If you have a war between Britain and Germany, whether a battle takes place in the North Sea - with both sides able to run to port and call on the support of their air bases - or out in the middle of the Atlantic, where Germany is cut off from retreat and only British airbases are in range, makes a big difference.
I would also be tempted to move the West Africa Sea Zone to encompass the entire coast, so you have a Mid Atlantic Sea zone which is out of range of any controlled possessions at game start. It would create an interesting dynamic with raiders and trade protection ships being rotated in and out, and battles taking place far from any ports or airbases; would it be possible to assign to all the Atlantic powers the property of having commerce there without having any possessions, as is the case for all countries with Northern Europe?
Edit: Also, I notice that southern France is currently part of the North European area, which doesn't make much sense. Is there a reason for that?
EDIT2: Possessions on Greenland and Iceland would also be great.
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 10, 2020 12:27:36 GMT -6
I'm kind of getting on board with a separate Adriatic Sea and to a lesser extent a separate Baltic Sea. However, I'm still concerned about move times. Have you factored in how the new move times will impact gameplay? Personally I find a two-month transit time from the Med to Northern Europe and the six month transit from the Japan to Northern Europe absolutely excessive. And the Suez Canal only shortens the trip by a month. A trip from southeast Asia to the East Coast USA takes five months on this map via the Med. The Great White Fleet did that trip, with port stops, in three months. I also don't think South Pacific and Polynesia should be separate sea zones, this coming from someone who frequently fights there. Lastly, while I like the increased possessions, there are simply way too many possessions in the Black Sea. I get that you're trying to make a possession out of as many coastal territory/ neutral countries as you can, but there really doesn't need to be more than a few bases there in the first place. Move times can be shortened by adding connections between non-adjacent regions yes, yes, yes. But im not sure of employ it. For the moment i get this: The only problem i have its with sweden tag, sometime in middle og game getting neutral, very strange and only that posesion. Split north sea from north atlantic its much complex change, getting out of supply navies in a germany-france war seems to harsh to me. i like hurt uk, but this is too much complex and not very realiable. Blockeade uk should be by noth sides, dont work in this game now. i will realise it soon, its a pain theres no portugal ported rtw2 yet.
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Post by seawolf on Sept 10, 2020 13:15:53 GMT -6
aquelarrefoxSo what I'm planning for the map mod is going to be an entirely new mod, based off the RTWII Map rather than the RTWI Mod. So most of the overseas naval regions outside of europe will be the same, but have territories added. I like what you've done with Europe, but there will be a few differences in my mod. I don't think I'm gonna include the Black Sea, at least until I can get a Turkey mod working. And in Northern Europe I'm gonna move Denmark out of the baltic, and split Germany into two home territories, one for Northern Europe, and one for the Baltic
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Post by generalvikus on Sept 10, 2020 15:09:07 GMT -6
Split north sea from north atlantic its much complex change, getting out of supply navies in a germany-france war seems to harsh to me. i like hurt uk, but this is too much complex and not very realiable. Blockeade uk should be by noth sides, dont work in this game now. You're right about these two things, which I hadn't considered. However, it could be solved either by splitting them so that the North Sea Zone (home zone for Germany, France, UK) extends about to the end of the Channel, with Brittany and the Western British coast included in the Atlantic, or simply having the North Sea encompass everything, and no controlled possessions at all out in the North Atlantic. I think that the first option would be better; as you say, Germany, France, and UK should all be able to fight and blockade one another, whereas Britain and France should have an advantage over Germany in the North Atlantic; conversely, Germany should not be forced to face the situation I described, where they have a fleet out in the North Atlantic, they're cut off from retreat by the British isles, and cut off from their own friendly air bases while the British or French can call on theirs at long range. In my most recent game, I had a fleet battle as Britain where Russia was put in exactly this position, which was completely unreasonable.
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 10, 2020 16:47:58 GMT -6
aquelarrefox So what I'm planning for the map mod is going to be an entirely new mod, based off the RTWII Map rather than the RTWI Mod. So most of the overseas naval regions outside of europe will be the same, but have territories added. I like what you've done with Europe, but there will be a few differences in my mod. I don't think I'm gonna include the Black Sea, at least until I can get a Turkey mod working. And in Northern Europe I'm gonna move Denmark out of the baltic, and split Germany into two home territories, one for Northern Europe, and one for the Baltic im merging both, but im still getting a full map, later i will see one to one the posession and if it has merits i will update it from RTW2 map, In europe. I have germany in 2 sea as home, and russia has baltic and black sea as home (black was done in previus mod). But im very intertested in complete at least a few subs position for possesion in general. Black sea its interesting spot as a home no so far from the baltic, i need to nerf initial base level there. What i notice until split the mediterrean that in some moments ai try to send big fleets there, ven for one tunr and the return to north sea, mybe theres something into code becose i doesnt happens in any other region
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 10, 2020 16:58:34 GMT -6
Split north sea from north atlantic its much complex change, getting out of supply navies in a germany-france war seems to harsh to me. i like hurt uk, but this is too much complex and not very realiable. Blockeade uk should be by noth sides, dont work in this game now. You're right about these two things, which I hadn't considered. However, it could be solved either by splitting them so that the North Sea Zone (home zone for Germany, France, UK) extends about to the end of the Channel, with Brittany and the Western British coast included in the Atlantic, or simply having the North Sea encompass everything, and no controlled possessions at all out in the North Atlantic. I think that the first option would be better; as you say, Germany, France, and UK should all be able to fight and blockade one another, whereas Britain and France should have an advantage over Germany in the North Atlantic; conversely, Germany should not be forced to face the situation I described, where they have a fleet out in the North Atlantic, they're cut off from retreat by the British isles, and cut off from their own friendly air bases while the British or French can call on theirs at long range. In my most recent game, I had a fleet battle as Britain where Russia was put in exactly this position, which was completely unreasonable. i bealive its much a misname problem, noth atlantic its in fact north sea, vizcaya and the south access to the british isles. then the north atlantic gets into a void with no poseesions. Now, i never tested it, but if for some reason link to raiders and subs interdiction tactics add a void region got some adventages im listening becose it really mather to split it. we all discover new point of view, the idea of spliting the med doesnt looks fine to me at first but have some good points, even with the delay, but its a game issue. what i changed its the links in indic (all the sea) as shortcuts so that road is longer, im n ot sure about how its suez working i will check later becose in my last map it is not in med. i also incluided the territories form sudamerica mod, and 2 new possesion (1 argentina and 1 brazil to get a funny sudamerican arm race invading others posesion 2 brazil, 2 argentina and 3 chile) also added at leat 1 battery in every posession of the map. im only working in a 1900 map
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Post by generalvikus on Sept 10, 2020 17:19:21 GMT -6
I can't think of any more advantages to a Mid Atlantic Gap than those I have mentioned already. In summary, these are:
- Germany should not have to fight Britain or France far away from its own air bases and cut off from its own ports. - It ought to be possible to raid the Trans - Atlantic commerce of Britain, France, or Germany without approaching their coasts, ports and air bases. - Forcing Britain, France, and Germany (but especially Britain) to worry about fighting in this region would change their strategic outlook to an arguably more historical one. For example, they will have to rely more on carriers and surface ships than on land based air power, compared to the Mediterranean countries who can rely more heavily on the latter. With low or no base capacity, the defending power (such as Britain) would have to rotate ships in and out, and would benefit from longer ranged ships. The raiding power (such as Germany) may have better numerical odds against the defender than he would if fighting in the home area.
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Post by seawolf on Sept 10, 2020 19:12:44 GMT -6
Just FYI, my original plan for North Sea and North Atlantic was splitting Britain and France into two, so they had bases in both
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Post by aquelarrefox on Sept 11, 2020 14:08:43 GMT -6
I can't think of any more advantages to a Mid Atlantic Gap than those I have mentioned already. In summary, these are: - Germany should not have to fight Britain or France far away from its own air bases and cut off from its own ports. - It ought to be possible to raid the Trans - Atlantic commerce of Britain, France, or Germany without approaching their coasts, ports and air bases. - Forcing Britain, France, and Germany (but especially Britain) to worry about fighting in this region would change their strategic outlook to an arguably more historical one. For example, they will have to rely more on carriers and surface ships than on land based air power, compared to the Mediterranean countries who can rely more heavily on the latter. With low or no base capacity, the defending power (such as Britain) would have to rotate ships in and out, and would benefit from longer ranged ships. The raiding power (such as Germany) may have better numerical odds against the defender than he would if fighting in the home area. im not sure go to work fine as them, letme tell you, and your points are more interesting that i think at first, but in the mod i use like original mapv3 for RTW1, we have central atlantic working like that and the ai dont see to handle than well. consceptually mybe its a strong point bu as far iknow ai its not screipted to see how to change that. I dont have germany raiding the mid atlantic "the defending power (such as Britain) would have to rotate ships in and out, and would benefit from longer ranged ships." this still happens in asia regions but i didnt see happening in north atlantic-central atalntic. posible with an ai proper tune to more regions your idea works, and could be nice to see it. i will upload a version with a mix of RTW1 and RTW2 posession while i move much from RTW2 map mainly european posession/med. i found a single problem i have to solve with split med: suez its not working as suez, i will see if its posible to patch it some how (mybe switching area numbers for both med and assingning the same position for egypt. If some dev could get more light over this please.
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