Higher/Realistic speeds for ships (V1.2 July 2022)

[seawolf]

This is a mod to change most HP requirements for ships over 30 knots using physics calculations and to fix bugs related to the end of speed curves.

This will allow you to make fast destroyers and cruisers that were possible in real life but not in game.

The mod will not increase weight requirements for any design(Except for very large battlecruisers), so most all of your old designs are compatible with the mod, and some may have extra weight available.

DOWNLOAD V1.2
Now includes all tonnages up to 39 knots or the engine max


Here's an example of hp reductions from the mod and added speed possibilities
(Speeds on top, displacement on the side, each unit corresponds to roughly 800 hp)
The negative values are reductions in hp requirements, and the positive values are new hp requirements.

Also has a version that brings small ships (<20k tons) up to the engine efficiency of everything else.


Please post any bugs or suggestions in this thread

[dizzy]

Please put Mod in your title so it’s more visible and searchable and thank you for this. I would also like to see a smooth horse power curve made out all the way to 20,000 tons if possible. I stop building BC around the mid forties and switch to smaller CA’s and it would be nice to see a smoothed hpncurve for them.

[seawolf]

Plan is a complete smooth curve out to 90,000 tons and 39 knots

[dizzy]

Whoot!

[Laffey Chan]

This is nice, was so sad I couldn't build those french and soviet monstrosities. Well, I guess I still cant reach 45kn, but this will have to do.

[dougphresh]

I was just thinking about those French and Italian DDs and CLs.

[oldpop2000]

My question is whether your data and methods were available in the time period of these games. If you are using modern, 21st century procedures and data, then it is not applicable to the early and middle 20th century. I am not being difficult, just trying to understand how this is going to work. If you want realism, the design of warships must conform to the knowledge of the time.

[seawolf]

Jun 29, 2019 9:51:50 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

My question is whether your data and methods were available in the time period of these games. If you are using modern, 21st century procedures and data, then it is not applicable to the early and middle 20th century. I am not being difficult, just trying to understand how this is going to work. If you want realism, the design of warships must conform to the knowledge of the time.

That wouldn’t change the physics.  This mod still uses the same research bonuses as the base game but reduces the HP requirements of high speed ships to more accurate levels(depending on your tech level it might be slightly higher or lower than historical ships

[oldpop2000]

Jun 29, 2019 12:00:54 GMT -6 seawolf said:

Jun 29, 2019 9:51:50 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

My question is whether your data and methods were available in the time period of these games. If you are using modern, 21st century procedures and data, then it is not applicable to the early and middle 20th century. I am not being difficult, just trying to understand how this is going to work. If you want realism, the design of warships must conform to the knowledge of the time.

That wouldn’t change the physics.  This mod still uses the same research bonuses as the base game but reduces the HP requirements of high speed ships to more accurate levels(depending on your tech level it might be slightly higher or lower than historical ships

Well, I personally don't agree with your assumption because fluid dynamics changed dramatically in the fifty years of the game, with the addition of new test equipment, procedures, test tanks and just scientific research. It was also aided by the addition of aerodynamics which along with hydrodynamics were both subsets. However, recognizing that, the game just can't reflect those sometimes minute changes so I agree with what you are doing. I will support the effort as long it is recognized that the system isn't perfect, games never are. Good work on your part though.

[seawolf]

Jun 29, 2019 12:34:30 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Jun 29, 2019 12:00:54 GMT -6 seawolf said:

That wouldn’t change the physics.  This mod still uses the same research bonuses as the base game but reduces the HP requirements of high speed ships to more accurate levels(depending on your tech level it might be slightly higher or lower than historical ships

Well, I personally don't agree with your assumption because fluid dynamics changed dramatically in the fifty years of the game, with the addition of new test equipment, procedures, test tanks and just scientific research. It was also aided by the addition of aerodynamics which along with hydrodynamics were both subsets. However, recognizing that, the game just can't reflect those sometimes minute changes so I agree with what you are doing. I will support the effort as long it is recognized that the system isn't perfect, games never are. Good work on your part though.

This is an extreme example of what I'm talking about but before we discovered gravity it still worked in the same way.  The same physics has governed ships since the first canoes.
What you're talking about is already represented in game through tech advances.

[dorn]

I am just following the discussion not understanding everything. But what has no sence to me is that calculation of models change, reality - phycics does not change, it was same whole eternity.

So if I have one exact ship, at start of the 20th century with that knowledge there were some estimation of horsepower needed to achieve certain speed. After one century we have much better ways how to do it so our estimation is much more precise. But in both cases the ship at the end will have same speed, only difference between estimation and achieved speed would differ.

Or is there something which I am missing?

[seawolf]

Jun 29, 2019 13:26:44 GMT -6 dorn said:

I am just following the discussion not understanding everything. But what has no sence to me is that calculation of models change, reality - phycics does not change, it was same whole eternity.

So if I have one exact ship, at start of the 20th century with that knowledge there were some estimation of horsepower needed to achieve certain speed. After one century we have much better ways how to do it so our estimation is much more precise. But in both cases the ship at the end will have same speed, only difference between estimation and achieved speed would differ.

Or is there something which I am missing?

No that’s pretty much what I’m saying

[Blothorn]

That advances in fluid dynamics have allowed much better optimizing of hull shapes. If you built a ship to 1900 plans today it would still have the same HP requirements as before (modulo advances in hull coatings), but if you ask a naval architect to design a hull for the same displacement and speed they should be able to produce usefully slicker lines. HP/displacement curves are thus relative to the present state of the art in hull design.

[seawolf]

Yes and tech developments over the course of the game represent those advancements. You can increase or reduce HP requirements with tech but even a floating box wouldn’t have an exponential speed curve like the one in game

[gorthaff]

Jun 29, 2019 13:05:05 GMT -6 seawolf said:

Jun 29, 2019 12:34:30 GMT -6 oldpop2000 said:

Well, I personally don't agree with your assumption because fluid dynamics changed dramatically in the fifty years of the game, with the addition of new test equipment, procedures, test tanks and just scientific research. It was also aided by the addition of aerodynamics which along with hydrodynamics were both subsets. However, recognizing that, the game just can't reflect those sometimes minute changes so I agree with what you are doing. I will support the effort as long it is recognized that the system isn't perfect, games never are. Good work on your part though.

This is an extreme example of what I'm talking about but before we discovered gravity it still worked in the same way.  The same physics has governed ships since the first canoes.
What you're talking about is already represented in game through tech advances.

Are you being dense on purpose? The game currently cannot accurately model the empirical performance of historical designs, therefore, as per definition reality is real, the game's simulation must be faulty.