Post by christian on Apr 22, 2022 4:12:57 GMT -6
Chiming in with some thoughts on this as its a fairly familiar topic;
If the game tops out ~26kyard (and we assume this to be from rangefinders, as we can open fire at this range), that means either
-We are assuming a rangefinder height of ~145ft
-We are assuming a rangefinder height of ~60ft, and a 'target height' of ~20ft (which would mean deck and up is visible for many ships, for larger ones also part of the freeboard)
We can discard the first, as its higher than Yamatos rangefinders which were at ~125ft, so clearly we are already accounting for target height as well, along with a more conservative rangefinder height.
Rangefinder Height
Part of the problem here is that rangefinder height varied a lot between ships, and also depending on era - with a steady increase from early WW1 to the 1920s, after which things start to settle, barring a few exceptions. Thus, 60ft is probably a somewhat conservative figure for battleships/cruisers, and probably on the high end for cruisers and the like. As I do not know if the ingame spotting range varies by ship type, I will restrict consideration here only to capital ships.
One possible solution to extend things a little and represent the progression, would be to tie rangefinder height to tonnage, such at at ~20kton you would start at a baseline of 80ft, and by say 50-60kton you would max out at ~100ft.
In addition, an additional option like the one for colonial duty etc, could be added, for 'elevated rangefinders', giving a fixed increase of say 10-15ft. This would be locked behind tech (probably mid 1920s?) and represent additional efforts and weight put into raising rangefinders above 'typical' heights.
With these changes, spotting distances would be (with current target height);
20kton baseline (80ft) ~28.9kyards
20kton elevated (95ft) ~30.6kyards
60kton maximum (100ft) ~31.2kyards
60kton elevated (115ft) ~32.8kyards
Obviously, radar horizon would be adjusted to also use these new heights.
At first glance this seems more reasonable, though we are still below the very long range historical shots (will not get into the accuracy debate here, but suffice to say pattern sizes at that range are pretty large, and danger space for a shell decreases as angle of fall increases - not a good combination).
So, clearly the second component of the equation also needs a bit of looking at.
Target Height
As said, we can assume current target height is ~20ft. This is below the freeboard height for larger battleships (Yamato is ~27ft, Queen Elizabeth as built is ~24ft), but above it for some cruisers. Again for the purposes of this comparison I will continue to use capital ships as the measuring stick.
Visibility to freeboard is basically 'complete' visibility, as at this point you are able to discern fall of shot to full accuracy, there is no ambiguity between over/under impacts. As visibility decreases to only part of the superstructure, this becomes more difficult, especially forward/aft of the superstructure (moreso aft, as forward the ships motion may still carry it past the water column from the impact). At this point rangefinding also become more difficult. Further up, with only the top of the superstructure and masts visibile, fall of shot become much harder to discern, and rangefinding even more difficult. At this point fire begins to become 'blindfire', and at these ranges and beyond optical spotting from a floatplane etc is the only way to correct. Beyond this, for spotting purposes, funnel smoke will be visible even if the ship is not, but fire against only smoke without a spotter aircraft is likely to be a complete exercise in futility.
From the above, we could assume the current number is slightly conservative. So as I see it there would be two ways to address this, a simple one and a slightly more nuanced one.
Simple - increase the height assumed for targets to ~30ft for capital ships. This would give a range of 34.9kyards for the 'maximum elevated' 115ft rangefinder. While this is still below some of the historical shots, its a 'close enough' approximation, and at 30ft the target is still more or less fully visible.
More complex - increase the height assumed for targets to ~25ft as a baseline for capital ships - this is the 'full accuracy' (obviously accounting for already existing range penalties) height (33.9kyard vs 115ft RF). Beyond this there would be a region where ships can fire, but will do so at steadily increased accuracy penalties on top of the standard range ones, to account for difficulty in discerning fall of shot and accurate rangefinding. The maximum height for this would be double the baseline, so 50ft. With a 'maximum elevated' 115ft rangefinder this would give a maximum range of 38.4kyards.
Summary
I would agree current maximum optical firing ranges are somewhat short in good visibility conditions. I would suggest the baseline be increased to atleast around 30-31kyards if nothing else is done, though I would suggest a more detailed solution as proposed above.
Actual spotting distance should probably be 10-20% further than these firing range, to account for seeing mast tops and smoke even if the ship itself is not visible.
Someone also mentioned radar-blindfire capable ships not being able to fire at daytime until within visual - this should obviously change, though you should still take significant penalties for blindfire regardless of time of day.
the bottom/hull of a ship does not necessarily need to be seen to give ranging or bearing accuracy.
Most ships can get a proper firing solution with the top mast of a ship being the only visible part due to horizon.
Aka about 115 feet for viewing rangefinder (your example) and the target being some 80-90 feet tall depending on target.)