|
Post by kungfutreachery on Apr 20, 2019 6:03:04 GMT -6
Ok.. since most of you disagree with any of my responses (not trying to be sarcastic or rude) and lets assume we know NOTHING about the damage piracy does (just to move out of that circle).. how do we reasonably protect our work? 4 criteria .. (a) no perpetual honor system, (b) does not include a 3rd party direct involvement (which can create complications), (c) can at least counter various casual piracy, and (d) that everyone can agree on If ANYONE has a good answer.. lets hear it. Any suggestions at all? Thanks.. Automate the serial code system. Don't tell me it's possible, do it before you implement the DRM system. This should not be a "to-do" part of your storefront. If it delays the game, fine. I'm not going to literally ask you personally for permission every time I install your software.
|
|
|
Post by kungfutreachery on Apr 20, 2019 6:04:22 GMT -6
instead of freaking out about something we havn't even tried or experienced yet, how about we see how it works out and move forward from there? NWS is obviously going monitor how it goes and take our comments and criticisms seriously so how about we give this a chance first, THEN freak out if it turns into a disaster (which i VERY HIGHLY doubt will happen) if you hate DRM so much it will prevent you from purchasing the game, then there's nothing anybody can do about that and that's it i want these developers to get the cash they deserve and this is the best route moving forward. NWS said we can install it on 2 machines which is cool, (i assume) we can install multiple copies on a single machine which is cool for modders, and i don't think people upgrade their computers so often that re-registering will become a constant pain give it a chance! There's no refund system. I'm not giving it a chance.
|
|
|
Post by alexbrunius on Apr 20, 2019 6:05:40 GMT -6
axe99 Agreed .. if STEAM thought piracy was a joke.. they would never bother with spending a fortune on theirs and few argue with their success and many of their dev contacts would likely never use them otherwise. I don't think that's the case. AFAIK Steam anti piracy is very simple ( online verification on game launch only ) and it's also 100% optional for publishers/developers. I know several very successful developers that sold millions of copies on Steam but choose to opt out of Steams anti-piracy and allow their games to only require connection on installation, so gamers can launch and play their games offline as well. One of the strenghts of Steams piracy protection is that connection is required to access additional value adding services like Workshop/Mods, Community/Chat, Multiplayer and so on.
|
|
|
Post by Grim.Reaper on Apr 20, 2019 6:07:26 GMT -6
"You didn't answer my other questions on the playing part." I believe we did but here they are again.. limited time frame but that is not set yet. So you download and send over your install code that will prompt you, start playing, and the full unlock code will be emailed back.. done. Thanks Well, the "limited time frame" part is the important part if your going to use that as an argument as to why manual processing of orders is OK. If limited is two weeks, then manual processing may be less of a concern. But if it is a few hours or a day or so, then situations like the person not being timely available is still relevant. So until that answer can be given.....speculation and concern will continue.
|
|
|
Post by kasuga on Apr 20, 2019 6:08:33 GMT -6
DRMs only **** customers, not "pirates", in the end i can now search and find the Battlefront titles with their supershit DRM cracked.
For me invest resources in a DRM is a waste of resources and as plus a fuckup for customers and publisher because is goig to need deal with customers with problems with the DRM.
Your games are going to be cracked yes or yes maybe they need one week more but in the end DRM only is going to **** customers.
I say this from the perspective of a SAI+campaign expansion+RJW+RTW and RTW2 buyer (and if you release SAI2 and or a napoleonic title i add them to the list).
PD: imagine i have a HD or computer crash and i need send you an email because even with installer and serial i need you "activated" again the game... a game i have installer+serial and with the actual serial system i dont need made you waste time and resources in solve my problem.
|
|
|
Post by Grim.Reaper on Apr 20, 2019 6:09:35 GMT -6
instead of freaking out about something we havn't even tried or experienced yet, how about we see how it works out and move forward from there? NWS is obviously going monitor how it goes and take our comments and criticisms seriously so how about we give this a chance first, THEN freak out if it turns into a disaster (which i VERY HIGHLY doubt will happen) if you hate DRM so much it will prevent you from purchasing the game, then there's nothing anybody can do about that and that's it i want these developers to get the cash they deserve and this is the best route moving forward. NWS said we can install it on 2 machines which is cool, (i assume) we can install multiple copies on a single machine which is cool for modders, and i don't think people upgrade their computers so often that re-registering will become a constant pain give it a chance! Not true, I have experienced and seen this type of protection before on other games and my comments are based on that regardless of the good intentions to make it an easy process.
|
|
|
Post by Grim.Reaper on Apr 20, 2019 6:14:23 GMT -6
Ok.. since most of you disagree with any of my responses (not trying to be sarcastic or rude) and lets assume we know NOTHING about the damage piracy does (just to move out of that circle).. how do we reasonably protect our work? 4 criteria .. (a) no perpetual honor system, (b) does not include a 3rd party direct involvement (which can create complications), (c) can at least counter various casual piracy, and (d) that everyone can agree on If ANYONE has a good answer.. lets hear it. Any suggestions at all? Thanks.. There is no good option based on your criteria.....the question is more the criteria your using. You admit this will not eliminate pirates but you want to at least address the casual pirates. The bigger question is whether putting some basic DRM in place to combat "some" of the piracy is worth the loss of other potential sales and having a less than optimal customer experience for your loyal customers? Matrix games using some basic serial number scheme that is not tied to hardware and such and have automated processes.......they don't seem to be having all this trouble with piracy or have a different take on it in order to have a good customer experience.
|
|
kaiwi
New Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by kaiwi on Apr 20, 2019 6:14:28 GMT -6
Ok.. since most of you disagree with any of my responses (not trying to be sarcastic or rude) and lets assume we know NOTHING about the damage piracy does (just to move out of that circle).. how do we reasonably protect our work? 4 criteria .. (a) no perpetual honor system, (b) does not include a 3rd party direct involvement (which can create complications), (c) can at least counter various casual piracy, and (d) that everyone can agree on If ANYONE has a good answer.. lets hear it. Any suggestions at all? Thanks..
Hey,
to give my two cent, whatever Protection System you choose is fine by me, honestly i just wanna play your Game, i am really exited for this one.
But for me the abilty to play on more then one System is a must have, i have a Home PC and a Laptop and i tend to buy a new Home PC or Laptop every two years.
I will not spend money on a game wich i can not play on the system i have in hands. I am around a lot and so my laptop is primary but of course when i am home i would want to play on the "Big Screen". And when i buy a new system i have to be sure that i can play the game on the new system as well.
If this requires Apps , one time online connecction for regestration, a hundred bit registration key or the sacrifice of white bunnys at midnight, i do not care ! Just choose the Piracy Protection you want. And i think i may not be the only one that thinks it this way.
Best Regards Kai
PS: (Yea my english gramma is pretty bad sorry for that.)
|
|
|
Post by kungfutreachery on Apr 20, 2019 6:21:07 GMT -6
Is this even going to counter casual piracy?
You said the effects of piracy were felt mainly in the LATE part of the game's life cycle, right? By that point rtw2's drm will have been cracked anyway.
All this is going to do is depress your early sales to no benefit, then.
|
|
|
Post by William Miller on Apr 20, 2019 6:22:06 GMT -6
Hi kaiwi .. thanks for your support. 2 PCs for your own personal use is already being worked on. We already wanted that to start with. Updating the code for new installs within that 2 should be no problem. As to your "English".. heck in some ways its better then mine. Thanks friend.
|
|
|
Post by William Miller on Apr 20, 2019 6:23:37 GMT -6
Guys.. I think I have commented as much I can..need sleep. Again if anyone has a better idea let us know covering those 4 criteria please post it.
Thanks
|
|
|
Post by kungfutreachery on Apr 20, 2019 6:24:58 GMT -6
Like... everyone who is here, bought RTW in spite of the ugly storefront, in spite of the weird system where a stranger has to email us our serial number after payment.
I very nearly did not make that purchase because it was too weird. I am certain there are many more people who were turned away entirely.
If this additional barrier had been up then, I would not have risked my money. You guys really need to rethink this.
|
|
|
Post by Grim.Reaper on Apr 20, 2019 6:32:32 GMT -6
Guys.. I think I have commented as much I can..need sleep. Again if anyone has a better idea let us know covering those 4 criteria please post it. Thanks You well know your (4) criteria can't be met without some kind of DRM.....the problem people are discussing is the need and the intended results of the DRM (why not an issue for companies like Matrix). In this case, you have chosen fighting pirates more important than customer experience, which certainly is your choice. Each potential purchaser will need to decide for themselves on what is important to them. But this discussion won't go away, look at the other games that have it, it's a constant source of debate in forums and gaming circles, just hope it is worth it. Sometimes the DRM discussions become more talked about than the game itself.
|
|
kaiwi
New Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by kaiwi on Apr 20, 2019 6:35:58 GMT -6
Hi kaiwi .. thanks for your support. 2 PCs for your own personal use is already being worked on. We already wanted that to start with. Updating the code for new installs within that 2 should be no problem. As to your "English".. heck in some ways its better then mine. Thanks friend.
I have been in the gaming scene for about 26 Years now and to be honest i did some piracy myself, i stop that way back so, i understand wy you want to protect your game, people tend to forget that small developers do pour their lifeblood in the games, most do anyway.
Its hard to explain to some people why they can not have it all.
@all Just accept that this is way it will be, this is not EA we are talking about......and yes the purchase of this Game will be inconivent for me to, it do not have Pay Pall and i do not have a Credit Card (Never did need one here in Germany.) so i have to actually ask a good friend to lend me a hand with his credit card. But that is the price i have to pay so give the Store Owner and the Developer a break. Hell just wait until the Developer have figured out how they do the multi registration on different systems or whatever and then buy the game.
Belive me i have seen much worse over the years......sorry had to say this nothing personal against anyone here
|
|
|
Post by dorn on Apr 20, 2019 6:36:56 GMT -6
I have been here and have been able to see your work for 2 years.
I can see your work, you care about it in similar way someone is proud to build his own work proudly showing it anybody who likes to see.
I am OK with your system, I think about RTW as something special. I wish you not forgot something which make RTW unplayable after decade from now. Gems should be not lost through time and I believe RTW2 will become such a gem.
|
|