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Post by thomasfitzgerald on May 18, 2023 20:30:42 GMT -6
So I tried these two beginnings after the release and found out that China in these two beginning years seemed to be unplayable. They only had one or two ancient cruisers and a flotilla of old destroyers, and their budget is so pitiful that they can barely build a destroyer at one time. Also they don't had domestic aircraft industries, which means they had to spent extra money to buy aircraft licenses abroad.
Although this status seemed to be historically accurate regarding to the Chinese Navy at that time, but as its description said, it is a 'what if' scenario, would it be better for them to have some capital ships and a larger budget to really 'build' their fleet, and thus make them able to stand a chance against their Japanese neighbors?
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Post by williammiller on May 18, 2023 20:58:20 GMT -6
China is indeed rather difficult to play; but not impossible, IMHO.
Honestly, if this is your first playthrough of RTW3 I would recommend trying out another nation first to get the hang of the game system and how everything works...the US at Medium size is a good one to start with in my own experience. After you get your feet wet with a few playthroughs of the game I think you would fare better and have a much better idea of how to do best with what China has available.
Having said the above, there are some players here that can give you some good advice on how to play China if you want to forge ahead, I will leave you with them as for now I need to get back to some work.
Thanks!
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Post by byro12345 on May 19, 2023 4:08:51 GMT -6
China is indeed rather difficult to play; but not impossible, IMHO. Honestly, if this is your first playthrough of RTW3 I would recommend trying out another nation first to get the hang of the game system and how everything works...the US at Medium size is a good one to start with in my own experience. After you get your feet wet with a few playthroughs of the game I think you would fare better and have a much better idea of how to do best with what China has available. Having said the above, there are some players here that can give you some good advice on how to play China if you want to forge ahead, I will leave you with them as for now I need to get back to some work. Thanks! Will China eventually get a domestic aircraft industry in game? Like during the 50s or 60s at least?
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Post by williammiller on May 19, 2023 9:29:58 GMT -6
No, China retains that aspect throughout the RTW3 game time-frame.
IIRC China did not produce its first original domestic-designed combat aircraft until 1979, so no actual original designs existed until after the 1970 tech cutoff for the game. All prior designs by the PRC were either direct copies of Soviet aircraft or modified versions of those aircraft models.
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Post by zederfflinger on May 19, 2023 16:18:12 GMT -6
No, China retains that aspect throughout the RTW3 game time-frame. IIRC China did not produce its first original domestic-designed combat aircraft until 1979, so no actual original designs existed until after the 1970 tech cutoff for the game. All prior designs by the PRC were either direct copies of Soviet aircraft or modified versions of those aircraft models. Isn't that really just due to how disastrous the 1900's were for China? I think they should have the option for domestic aircraft design at some point in the game.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 19, 2023 16:27:37 GMT -6
China is indeed rather difficult to play; but not impossible, IMHO. Honestly, if this is your first playthrough of RTW3 I would recommend trying out another nation first to get the hang of the game system and how everything works...the US at Medium size is a good one to start with in my own experience. After you get your feet wet with a few playthroughs of the game I think you would fare better and have a much better idea of how to do best with what China has available. Having said the above, there are some players here that can give you some good advice on how to play China if you want to forge ahead, I will leave you with them as for now I need to get back to some work. Thanks! I just started a game as China and I will try to pass along some thoughts. One thing is the first two battleships were built in Germany, not one in Italy and one in Germany.
First, China's main enemies are Russia and Japan with Japan being the primary naval enemy. Russia is really a land based power. Two, China's main area's of concern are 1. The Sea of Japan 2. Yellow Sea 3. The East China Sea. All of these seas are less than 600 miles across, so long range is not really needed.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 19, 2023 17:29:48 GMT -6
Well, as I expected. My first war is with....Japan, of course. I did gain a marginal victory in the first battle. I sank one of the Japanese cruisers on the second. The Japanese did not show up for the third. I won the fourth battle. Lead in points is very high. This will not be a repeat of the historical Sino-Japanese War if I have anything to say about it.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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Post by byro12345 on May 19, 2023 21:10:17 GMT -6
No, China retains that aspect throughout the RTW3 game time-frame. IIRC China did not produce its first original domestic-designed combat aircraft until 1979, so no actual original designs existed until after the 1970 tech cutoff for the game. All prior designs by the PRC were either direct copies of Soviet aircraft or modified versions of those aircraft models. Oh ok thanks for telling me
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 19, 2023 21:11:52 GMT -6
This last battle was interesting. It was a convoy escort and the IJN attacked with two Izumi class cruisers. One of them blew up and other headed for home. I now have the British and Spanish on my side. It ain't looking good for the IJN. They are way behind.
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Post by colprice on May 20, 2023 3:48:36 GMT -6
I started as China in 1935 - a mottly mix of old DD, couple of SS and KE. Shortly after setting out airbases, aircraft licences, I was awarded 80000 for a new BB (BB, BC, or B). Reached a design stage (UK build, Nelson style with 3x3 14", 12x5" DP, 23 knots - more than a match for all Soviet and most Japanese BB), next thing I know is that the war dept snaffle the funds for the army... So much for the war dept.!
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 20, 2023 6:08:50 GMT -6
I started as China in 1935 - a mottly mix of old DD, couple of SS and KE. Shortly after setting out airbases, aircraft licences, I was awarded 80000 for a new BB (BB, BC, or B). Reached a design stage (UK build, Nelson style with 3x3 14", 12x5" DP, 23 knots - more than a match for all Soviet and most Japanese BB), next thing I know is that the war dept snaffle the funds for the army... So much for the war dept.! I will start a China game in 1935 and see what happens. Stay tuned, more at 11:00. BTW, don't be to upset about War departments, they do tend to snaffle everything.
Update: I've started a 1935 China Game. My initial settings are: Tech Variation - None I've raised submarine, light forces and torpedo warfare along with machinery development to high I've bought licenses to dive bombers and long range patrol aircraft. I am now currently building medium range subs automatically. I am bulding subs because I can cut off Japan from supplies easily with submarines. She is a maritime power and has few natural resources.
Note: I've been sacked. You cannot over build anything in the China game, they have little funds.
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uruk
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by uruk on May 20, 2023 7:59:14 GMT -6
No, China retains that aspect throughout the RTW3 game time-frame. IIRC China did not produce its first original domestic-designed combat aircraft until 1979, so no actual original designs existed until after the 1970 tech cutoff for the game. All prior designs by the PRC were either direct copies of Soviet aircraft or modified versions of those aircraft models. Well thats not true they had a number of domestic designs such as the Liuchow Kwangsi Type 3, X-PO and so on they just weren´t as effective and cheap as imports.
A history of Chinese aviation : encyclopedia of aircraft and aviation in China until 1949 by Lennart Andersson is a good source about both imported and domestic aircraft in use by the republic of China
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Post by williammiller on May 20, 2023 8:31:16 GMT -6
To my knowledge China never serially produced any domestically-designed military combat aircraft until the later 1970s, so the intent of my statement is correct. The PRC in particular could not sustain any serious production of domestic-designed combat aircraft until after they acquired sufficient experience with existing designs to do so.
Both the the Liuchow Kwangsi Type 3 and the Chu XP-O were only single prototypes and were never produced.
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Post by oldpop2000 on May 20, 2023 9:20:26 GMT -6
Just a reminder to everyone about China and her aircraft. The second Sino-Japanese war began in 1937 and lasted until 1945. Manchuria had been invaded and taken by the IJA in around 1931. This prevented the Chinese from developing their own aircraft industry. Here are the aircraft she was able to buy:
"The frontline Chinese fighter squadrons were equipped primarily with the Curtiss Hawk IIIs and Hawk IIs, followed by Boeing P-26 Model 281 Peashooter, and Fiat CR. 32. Bomber-attack aircraft consisted primarily of the Curtiss A-12 Shrikes, Douglas O-2s, Heinkel He-111, Martin B-10s and Northrop Gammas."
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Post by TheOtherPoster on May 20, 2023 10:52:04 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm failing to see the issue here preventing China to have her own aircraft industry some time into the game. China had always the potential to become one of the big players in Asia. I think that was delayed historically for external and internal causes. But in a game like RTW, where we only take history as a starting point, I really don't see any problem here. Unless we want to say that they cannot have aircraft carriers either because they didn't get them before 1970. In fact I would say that taking history only as a starting point, is one of the great features that have made RTW.
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