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Hmmm.
Jul 27, 2019 21:18:40 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 21:18:40 GMT -6
I played RTW1 for at least 200 hours and RTW2 for at least 30 hours, and when I played that games, mines NEVER had ANY effect on enemy ships during battle. Yes, they may hit mines after the end of the battle when the time runs out, or between turns, but NEVER in the battle. AI ships just go through my mines, they dont even avoid them. Cca 50% of my ships that got hit by mine got hit by another one less than one second afterwards. Exactly 0% of enemy ships that went right through my mine´s circle were damaged.
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Post by williammiller on Jul 27, 2019 22:08:22 GMT -6
secondcomingofzeno An entire thread where you are basically replying to yourself is...well, just a bit bizarre to say the least. But the worst part is this: You have been told, several times now (by both myself and the games primary developer), that the AI does not cheat. And...unlike you, I am not going to keep repeating myself endlessly. So, short story: Grow up and stop this silliness or find another forum to do it on.
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Hmmm.
Jul 27, 2019 22:11:11 GMT -6
Post by williammiller on Jul 27, 2019 22:11:11 GMT -6
I played RTW1 for at least 200 hours and RTW2 for at least 30 hours, and when I played that games, mines NEVER had ANY effect on enemy ships during battle. Yes, they may hit mines after the end of the battle when the time runs out, or between turns, but NEVER in the battle. AI ships just go through my mines, they dont even avoid them. Cca 50% of my ships that got hit by mine got hit by another one less than one second afterwards. Exactly 0% of enemy ships that went right through my mine´s circle were damaged. If this is correct it should be reported as a bug. Do you have any save games where this occurs for us to look at? That would help determine what is going on.
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Hmmm.
Jul 27, 2019 22:15:43 GMT -6
Post by brucesim2003 on Jul 27, 2019 22:15:43 GMT -6
6. Larger ships can be spotted farther than smaller ships Line of sight works both ways.
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Hmmm.
Jul 27, 2019 22:17:48 GMT -6
Post by seawolf on Jul 27, 2019 22:17:48 GMT -6
6. Larger ships can be spotted farther than smaller ships Line of sight works both ways. Not always, a smaller target is harder to see than a large one, at night especially. In the daytime if there's not spotters on top of those main masts it absolutely does not work both ways
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Hmmm.
Jul 27, 2019 22:44:35 GMT -6
Post by thesovietonion on Jul 27, 2019 22:44:35 GMT -6
I just had a destroyer rammed and sunk (I like to image it was sliced in half) by a dreadnought during a night raid. It was our first contact with the enemy.
Your posts come off either as an impatient/immature player or an obvious troll. The mods and devs here are great about responding to player feedback. There's a suggestions and a bug reporting area. Utilize this rather than make... whatever this thread is.
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Hmmm.
Jul 27, 2019 23:18:59 GMT -6
Post by secondcomingofzeno on Jul 27, 2019 23:18:59 GMT -6
I played RTW1 for at least 200 hours and RTW2 for at least 30 hours, and when I played that games, mines NEVER had ANY effect on enemy ships during battle. Yes, they may hit mines after the end of the battle when the time runs out, or between turns, but NEVER in the battle. AI ships just go through my mines, they dont even avoid them. Cca 50% of my ships that got hit by mine got hit by another one less than one second afterwards. Exactly 0% of enemy ships that went right through my mine´s circle were damaged. If this is correct it should be reported as a bug. Do you have any save games where this occurs for us to look at? That would help determine what is going on. Mines have literally never worked on AI ships since RTW1. ;V
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Post by sloanjh on Jul 28, 2019 0:11:14 GMT -6
If this is correct it should be reported as a bug. Do you have any save games where this occurs for us to look at? That would help determine what is going on. Mines have literally never worked on AI ships since RTW1. ;V I'm pretty sure I've had an AI ship get hit by a mine recently (don't remember RTW1 or 2). I was running along the north coast of Germany, the enemy was chasing me, and I tried to steer them through the minefield and it worked!!! Turned the tide of the battle too! (90% confident in my memory.) Thinking back, I think it was RTW1 and I was Germany at war with UK just before RTW2 came out. That being said, there have been times when I thought the AI ships were going to run into a minefield and then they did a tiny course correction and missed it. I think part of the issue is the imperfect knowledge/fog of war in the game - if we could see the enemy minefields at the end of a battle (I don't remember if we can, but I don't think we can) we might be saying "wow - I can't believe I sailed through all that and didn't get hit!!". I definitely see this effect with torpedoes in the after-battle logs - I'm sometimes surprised at how many torpedoes I never knew were out there that I dodged with my zigzagging. Another thing to keep in mind: according to Frederik the interface sometimes deliberately lies about whether a ship was struck by a mine or a torpedo from a submarine - more fog of war. So some of those mid-ocean or double "mine" hits might be a sub torpedoing your ship. Combining that with the effect that Seawolf(?) pointed out up-thread that I as a player tend to spend a lot more time around enemy ports than the enemy does around mine, plus the fact that I don't always look at every enemy ship's damage log (they could be getting mined and I'm not noticing) could be a plausible explanation for what I think a lot of us have observed - even though I don't believe the AI is intentionally cheating, it does feel like I run into mines a lot more often than the AI does. One final thought (for williammiller): I assume that there's a flag for each minefield that gets set that indicates whether it's been "spotted" or not (by having a ship run into it ). It might be worth checking if there's a bug in the code and the AI side somehow is always seeing "true" when it reads the flag. This would explain the behavior I've observed a couple of times where the AI seems to change course to avoid a mine patch. I think there's a very low probability that this is going on, (for example, I expect the code is symmetric between sides, so it's hard to see how the bug would hit computer AI divisions without hitting human AI divisions), but if it were true that would square everyone's perception of reality. OTOH, there's a whole lot of other stuff to fix too If I get into a position in a battle where I think this is about to happen I'll try to remember to do a save so I can log it if the course changes. John
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Hmmm.
Jul 28, 2019 1:09:56 GMT -6
Post by rimbecano on Jul 28, 2019 1:09:56 GMT -6
I played RTW1 for at least 200 hours and RTW2 for at least 30 hours, and when I played that games, mines NEVER had ANY effect on enemy ships during battle. Yes, they may hit mines after the end of the battle when the time runs out, or between turns, but NEVER in the battle. AI ships just go through my mines, they dont even avoid them. Cca 50% of my ships that got hit by mine got hit by another one less than one second afterwards. Exactly 0% of enemy ships that went right through my mine´s circle were damaged. If this is correct it should be reported as a bug. Do you have any save games where this occurs for us to look at? That would help determine what is going on. The frequency of mine hits on my ships while in contact with the enemy is low enough that I take it for granted that I will not see mine hits on enemy ships, because I will not be in contact with the enemy when they occur. In SAI I have seen enemy ships hit mines, because I can lay a long string of mines in a choke point and lure enemy ships into it. With the pinpoint minefields in RTW, I have never seen an enemy ship hit a mine, because it's too hard to lure enemy ships into them, so the timing of such events is random, and almost never coincides with the enemy being in sight. Funnily enough, the only time I've seen an enemy ship hit an RTW-sized minefield was in SAI: somehow I'd accidentally laid a pinpoint minefield instead of a string of mines, and several months later my BC force stumbled across the whole Grand Fleet at night and high tailed it for home while I waited for my BBs to scramble. In the morning I was still being chased (my trailing light forces had never quite managed to break contact, so the Brits were able to regain contact with the heavies in the morning), and saw a perfect opportunity to lure the enemy over the minefield. The lead BB hit a mine and threw the whole front end of the Grand Fleet into disarray. It might help to have a section in the battle results for mine hits taken, so that the player can see that they have occurred even if he didn't witness the event.
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Hmmm.
Jul 28, 2019 2:45:29 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by dorn on Jul 28, 2019 2:45:29 GMT -6
Relating to mine hits on tactical map.
I did not check mine hits to AI but I know I am hit by mines quite often especially sailing near enemy ports.
But there are many more battles near enemy ports than my ports so I expect to be hit more often.
It is very similar to torpedo hits. AI is more caution than player so probability of torpedo or mine hit should be lower for AI.
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Hmmm.
Jul 28, 2019 3:54:05 GMT -6
Post by cabalamat on Jul 28, 2019 3:54:05 GMT -6
Finally a fleet battle! Oh wait like 90% of the fleet battles ingame, its a night fleet battle, AKA, float around until the timer runs out, because attacking is genuine suicide. I like those, I send my DDs in, and the enemy can't fire at them until they#re in torpedo range by which time it's too late.
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Hmmm.
Jul 28, 2019 8:18:22 GMT -6
cv10 likes this
Post by brucesim2003 on Jul 28, 2019 8:18:22 GMT -6
Line of sight works both ways. In the daytime if there's not spotters on top of those main masts it absolutely does not work both ways Any skipper that doesn't have lookouts in the tops while at sea in a war zone would be court marshaled for endangering his ship. At that time in history, the RN and (IIRC) USN held an immediate court of inquiry when a ship was lost. 'Sorry sirs, no lookouts' would not go down well.
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Hmmm.
Jul 28, 2019 9:39:20 GMT -6
Post by seawolf on Jul 28, 2019 9:39:20 GMT -6
In the daytime if there's not spotters on top of those main masts it absolutely does not work both ways Any skipper that doesn't have lookouts in the tops while at sea in a war zone would be court marshaled for endangering his ship. At that time in history, the RN and (IIRC) USN held an immediate court of inquiry when a ship was lost. 'Sorry sirs, no lookouts' would not go down well. Oh I wasn’t saying that. Not all masts are lookout masts
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Hmmm.
Jul 28, 2019 10:02:58 GMT -6
Post by williammiller on Jul 28, 2019 10:02:58 GMT -6
If this is correct it should be reported as a bug. Do you have any save games where this occurs for us to look at? That would help determine what is going on. The frequency of mine hits on my ships while in contact with the enemy is low enough that I take it for granted that I will not see mine hits on enemy ships, because I will not be in contact with the enemy when they occur. In SAI I have seen enemy ships hit mines, because I can lay a long string of mines in a choke point and lure enemy ships into it. With the pinpoint minefields in RTW, I have never seen an enemy ship hit a mine, because it's too hard to lure enemy ships into them, so the timing of such events is random, and almost never coincides with the enemy being in sight. Funnily enough, the only time I've seen an enemy ship hit an RTW-sized minefield was in SAI: somehow I'd accidentally laid a pinpoint minefield instead of a string of mines, and several months later my BC force stumbled across the whole Grand Fleet at night and high tailed it for home while I waited for my BBs to scramble. In the morning I was still being chased (my trailing light forces had never quite managed to break contact, so the Brits were able to regain contact with the heavies in the morning), and saw a perfect opportunity to lure the enemy over the minefield. The lead BB hit a mine and threw the whole front end of the Grand Fleet into disarray. It might help to have a section in the battle results for mine hits taken, so that the player can see that they have occurred even if he didn't witness the event. Thats a good suggestion, it might help with the perception that enemy ships 'never hit mines'. Thanks.
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Post by noshurviverse on Jul 28, 2019 10:10:57 GMT -6
One of my ships hit a mine. Something that the AI can cheat to avoid. Put every single ship of mine onto AI control to ensure that neither side has any advantages. My AI ship 'hits a torpedo' with no ships around (Its a mine). Something which enemy ships never get. Left my ships onto AI control again for further testing. One of my cruisers hits a mine in the literal middle of nowhere of the ocean. AI ENEMY ships cheat and dodge mines. Players are unfairly biased against. I played RTW1 for at least 200 hours and RTW2 for at least 30 hours, and when I played that games, mines NEVER had ANY effect on enemy ships during battle. Yes, they may hit mines after the end of the battle when the time runs out, or between turns, but NEVER in the battle. AI ships just go through my mines, they dont even avoid them. Cca 50% of my ships that got hit by mine got hit by another one less than one second afterwards. Exactly 0% of enemy ships that went right through my mine´s circle were damaged. If this is correct it should be reported as a bug. Do you have any save games where this occurs for us to look at? That would help determine what is going on. Mines have literally never worked on AI ships since RTW1. ;V Seeing as how we have several different people making the same claim, I once again decided to indulge my testing fetish. Starting a 1900 campaign as Russia, I proceeded to sink the entire naval budget into coastal fortifications. Soon enough a war broke out with Germany. After letting a couple months go by to build up the minefields, I began accepting battles. During a DD action, I was able to lure a division of German Destroyers through one of the marked minefield circles. Soon afterwards the division broke off contact. Upon daybreak, I ran my own DD division by the area and was prompted to pick up survivors from an "UNSIGHTED". Post-scenario reports indicate that the German DD G8 struck a mine during combat. In my other post conducting testing of contended game mechanics, I merely stated that the hypothesis (AI having "cheating" advantages in torpedo launches) was not supported, despite the difference in launches over 5 tests being less that 1.5%. I did so because I could not conclusively rule out that I was merely experiencing a statistical anomaly. However, in this case the evidence is conclusive and the hypothesis of AI ships being unable to strike mines has been proven false.The alternative hypothesis (AI having some advantage in avoiding them) has not, but as of yet there is no substantial evidence to suggest so. Attachments:
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