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Post by halseyincarnate on Apr 23, 2019 17:56:29 GMT -6
Could someone summarize the issues going on right now? I've been a busy collage student the past few weeks and haven't been able to follow the forums super closely recently.
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Post by tbr on Apr 23, 2019 18:39:17 GMT -6
We can offer support with that! For a cheap price we offer the best goats! On the release news, bugger. I seriously hope I don't get hit by a truck in the meantime, and well, I'm still waiting for M&B2: Bannerlord, so a month is NOTHING. I'm been waiting for that game as well...so we are 'in the same boat' for that one Yes, M&B2 "Waitlord" is one of my most anticipated releases to (would be #2 behind RTW2 if I still believed in a release this decade). The eternal wait for it is exacerbated by the original M&B being the true pioneer of well done early access (well before anybody had coined the term and well before any game-shop sites offered such). I have been playing M&B for, IIRC, 15 years now, since I bought direct from the Taleworlds website in 2004.
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Post by yemo on Apr 23, 2019 18:50:23 GMT -6
Could someone summarize the issues going on right now? I've been a busy collage student the past few weeks and haven't been able to follow the forums super closely recently. Effectively, shortly before expected release, customers were told that RTW2 will not be sold, but instead indefinitely rented out to the customer for the same price (payable upfront), with the vague promise to give the customers ownership should something bad happen to the landlord.
Of course people voiced their very differing opinions on that.
In a very positive move, a demo was announced, so everyone has a chance to test what they pay money for.
Then the expected release was pushed back 3 weeks to polish it up and make sure everything works well, from new website to functionality to everything. The possibility of a delay to polish it was clearly communicated when the expected release date was published, but people naturally got their hopes up. The new release date is communicated to be set in stone, so everyone can plan with it.
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Post by pirateradar on Apr 23, 2019 20:17:51 GMT -6
Could someone summarize the issues going on right now? I've been a busy collage student the past few weeks and haven't been able to follow the forums super closely recently. Effectively, shortly before expected release, customers were told that RTW2 will not be sold, but instead indefinitely rented out to the customer for the same price (payable upfront), with the vague promise to give the customers ownership should something bad happen to the landlord.
Of course people voiced their very differing opinions on that.
In a very positive move, a demo was announced, so everyone has a chance to test what they pay money for.
Then the expected release was pushed back 3 weeks to polish it up and make sure everything works well, from new website to functionality to everything. The possibility of a delay to polish it was clearly communicated when the expected release date was published, but people naturally got their hopes up. The new release date is communicated to be set in stone, so everyone can plan with it.
To be clear, what Yemo is alluding to with the "indefinitely rented out to the customer" comment is that RtW2 will have a DRM system wherein each installation will need to be manually activated with a software key emailed to you by the NWS store operator. This is because, on a happier note, RtW seems to have been NWS's most successful game to date, which means it's the first time any of their games has been pirated in significant numbers.
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Post by William Miller on Apr 24, 2019 10:58:37 GMT -6
Only if its on a different PC or you do a *major* upgrade to the original PC, not every "installation" Also "renting" is a false term.. in such cases your paying a periodic fee for use over various lengths of time and if not paid you must surrender the product. Paying for software use with a one time charge with no periodic time limit is not a "rental" transaction. The above is just for clarification...not a debate topic. Thanks
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Post by charybdis on Apr 24, 2019 11:47:51 GMT -6
So the license is understood to be in perpetuity?
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Post by yemo on Apr 24, 2019 11:51:12 GMT -6
Only if its on a different PC or you do a *major* upgrade to the original PC, not every "installation" Also "renting" is a false term.. in such cases your paying a periodic fee for use over various lengths of time and if not paid you must surrender the product. Paying for software use with a one time charge with no periodic time limit is not a "rental" transaction. The above is just for clarification...not a debate topic. Thanks If you pay someone for a car and then have to ask that person for permission to keep using the car every time you move, you certainly have not bought the car.
And if you pay someone to live in a house and then have to ask that person for permission if you want to move out and let someone else use the house, you certainly have not bought the house.
The term "renting" does not imply a periodic fee, it is applicable when payment (one, several) is made in exchange for the temporary usage of a good/service/property. The condition for the end of the temoporary usage does not have to be a date or duration, but can be nearly every other condition (even a hardware change in this instance). In not all cases do you have to surrender the product/service, some require you just to ceise using it.
Thus the term "renting" fits perfectly fine.
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Husky
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by Husky on Apr 24, 2019 11:55:11 GMT -6
I play a lot of of games from the "Combat Mission" genre. With the old "Shock Force" they had a 3-time limit, you could deactivate a license, but the newer Windows Versions almost always had an error doing so, using up one "limit". After you used the three limits, it needed to be resetted by the support. I had no problems doing that, even 10 Years after the game was originally released... Since I can't see the dev's sing this boat any time soon, I assume the same for NWS. And they were resetted in hours. Even though I live in a completly diffrent time zone. They later changed it to a "4 limit and 2 extra overflow which didnt raise eyebrows, no unlicensing, replenishing 1 limit ever year" system. Which is still the same. And I can imagine they would STILL replenish your limits, even if you maybe screw up your windows installation three times in a row or something. @devs: Maybe the "1 limit replenished after 365 Days" is a valid option for you guys? Just suggesting, don't know if you ever thought about that. All in all: Guys, keep it down with the "This is only rental" accusations. Let this discussion be civil. Edit: yemo The term "rent" (As far as its concerned here in germany, where it is called "Miete") is typically an allowance to use an object in an agreed upon matter for exchange of money (once, periodically is not important). You do NOT own the object. A car (to pick up you analogy) uses a key to not only ignite, but also lock/unlock saied car. If you loose/break off (And I dont mean someone stole it!) that key, you cant enter your owned car. You don't have an automatic right to get a new key. You need to pay for it. You can't go to the car dealership or to the manufacturer and demand a key free of charge. If they give you one, great. But they usually charge you some fine bucks for it. In this case, you have a right to recieve your replenishment of limits, in case they are up, free of any charge. There is no arguing over it. In fact, I am pretty sure you would win before any court out there if NWS would ever refuse to repelnish you a key. (Not implaying NWS would ever do that.)
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Post by hoffmads on Apr 24, 2019 12:37:21 GMT -6
I'm planning on upgrading the RAM on my laptop from 4 GB to 16 GB in the near future. It's this likely to constitute a major enough change to require reinstallation? I ask because if it will, I'll probably upgrade my RAM prior to the game being released rather than waiting longer as I was planning.
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Post by williammiller on Apr 24, 2019 13:13:36 GMT -6
I'm planning on upgrading the RAM on my laptop from 4 GB to 16 GB in the near future. It's this likely to constitute a major enough change to require reinstallation? I ask because if it will, I'll probably upgrade my RAM prior to the game being released rather than waiting longer as I was planning. No, that would not affect/activate the protection at all.
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ironduke666
New Member
Forum residential Furry
Posts: 27
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Post by ironduke666 on Apr 24, 2019 14:10:05 GMT -6
typically changing the CPU or possibly the graphics-card trigger a change in hardware signature, in some cases the software is 'smart' enough to discriminate between an upgrade and an effectively new PC. A 'Heart-Lung transplant' (Mainboard and CPU) will definitely require a new verification.
Addendum: The 'server-update' mentioned in the announcement of the delay could possibly hint at an attempt in automating the rather antiquated system of managing keys and purchases.
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Post by thenewteddy on Apr 24, 2019 14:50:39 GMT -6
I'm planning on upgrading the RAM on my laptop from 4 GB to 16 GB in the near future. It's this likely to constitute a major enough change to require reinstallation? I ask because if it will, I'll probably upgrade my RAM prior to the game being released rather than waiting longer as I was planning. No, that would not affect/activate the protection at all. would a new GPU/video card change the code? and if not; would a new CPU do it (I assume a new CPU would do it)
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Post by williammiller on Apr 24, 2019 15:34:50 GMT -6
thenewteddy : A new or replacement graphics card will not require re-activation. Updating the graphics adapter is one of the more common PC upgrades so it will be exempted. I am afraid I cannot go into more specifics than that, as releasing every specific item/change that might trigger a re-activation could reduce the potential effectiveness of the protection. I hope you can understand why we have to be careful with that. Thanks!
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Post by William Miller on Apr 24, 2019 19:55:14 GMT -6
Technically and legally "renting" is not the same thing as "licencing" which is included in most any standard EULA and adheres to international copyright law.
For "rented" property the more legally accurate term is "lease". Eventually you have to return a "rented", or "leased", product to the rightful owner unless their is a mutual transaction for exchange of ownership.
When we decide to cut the APS due to no longer actively supporting RTW2 (likely to be quite a few years off) you would not be returning RTW2 to us and you will not be charged for use again anytime in the future.
The EULA and copyright protection will still be in effect for RTW2 for many years.. as it goes for ANY software licence unless the publisher says otherwise in legal documentation.
Read up on EULAs sometime which involves virtually any purchased software on the market - including your operating system. Even freeware can have a EULA.
In some countries the legal semantics might be worded a bit differently but the general concepts of the above still hold the same meaning in most cases and copyright law is upheld in most all major countries.
That ends this topic to avoid a lengthily debate so lets move on please.
Thanks
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Post by tythas on Apr 25, 2019 15:44:26 GMT -6
I am curious at how many customers you are expecting to have on launch day, and what kind of system you have set up for dealing with a large influx of people buying it Day 1. So doing the math assuming you sit down and do nothing but send codes for 8 hours, you have 480 minutes. If you can send two emails a minute that’s 960 codes. Four codes a minute, if you can do one email every 15 seconds, that is 1920 codes. Now it is likely you will have somewhere near that number due to anticipation from youtubers, Let's Player's, and their followers, as well as the people on these forums and else where. Is there a system in place that will keep people from waiting 2+ days?
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