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Post by generalvikus on Jun 16, 2019 11:40:59 GMT -6
Is it intended that the immunity zone calculator does not factor whether or not the 'inclined belt' checkbox is ticked? The manual says that inclined belt makes the armour 'about 10% more effective" but I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, exactly. Is the resistance increased by 10% at every range, or is there some kind of curve?
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Post by christian on Jun 16, 2019 12:25:14 GMT -6
Is it intended that the immunity zone calculator does not factor whether or not the 'inclined belt' checkbox is ticked? The manual says that inclined belt makes the armour 'about 10% more effective" but I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, exactly. Is the resistance increased by 10% at every range, or is there some kind of curve? take armor put into calculator times it by 10% and boom you got the effective armor immunity zone calculator does not update the values with sloped deck layout or inclined belt |
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Post by seawolf on Jun 16, 2019 13:18:51 GMT -6
Is it intended that the immunity zone calculator does not factor whether or not the 'inclined belt' checkbox is ticked? The manual says that inclined belt makes the armour 'about 10% more effective" but I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, exactly. Is the resistance increased by 10% at every range, or is there some kind of curve? take armor put into calculator times it by 10% and boom you got the effective armor immunity zone calculator does not update the values with sloped deck layout or inclined belt I feel like that's way too low. Iowa had 30% more effective armor from a 20* belt |
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Post by dorn on Jun 16, 2019 13:38:59 GMT -6
take armor put into calculator times it by 10% and boom you got the effective armor immunity zone calculator does not update the values with sloped deck layout or inclined belt I feel like that's way too low. Iowa had 30% more effective armor from a 20* belt It is much more complex. It depends on distance, at point blank range it is about 6 %.
But inclined belt does mean that more hits instead hitting belt hits below belt.
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Post by generalvikus on Jun 16, 2019 21:17:56 GMT -6
I feel like that's way too low. Iowa had 30% more effective armor from a 20* belt It is much more complex. It depends on distance, at point blank range it is about 6 %.
But inclined belt does mean that more hits instead hitting belt hits below belt.
, you say it's 10% at all ranges, and dorn , you say it's 6% at point blank. Do either of you know that you're right? williammiller Fredrik W can either of you enlighten us about this? |
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Post by elouda on Jun 16, 2019 21:34:47 GMT -6
The manual lists it as being 'about 10%'.
I think the 6% is a numerical estimate, as effectively what an inclined belt does in increase the impact angle by the inclination angle. This means that its notably more efficient at longer ranges (and thus higher impact angles) due to the mathematics. While ~6-6.5% is theoretically right for point blank in reality for a 20deg incline, its probably not even that much as this doesnt account for shell normalization. At 10 degree angle of fall (~12kyards for a 16in/45) the effect should theoretically be around ~15%, but again will be less in practice due to normalization. At 20 degree angle of fall (~22kyard for 16in/45) theoretical effect should be ~30%. |
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Post by dorn on Jun 16, 2019 21:36:51 GMT -6
It is much more complex. It depends on distance, at point blank range it is about 6 %.
But inclined belt does mean that more hits instead hitting belt hits below belt.
, you say it's 10% at all ranges, and dorn , you say it's 6% at point blank. Do either of you know that you're right? williammiller Fredrik W can either of you enlighten us about this? I spoke about Iowa class. I do not know how it is done in RTW. In reality inclined belt is more effective with distance as angle increased. |
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Post by elouda on Jun 16, 2019 21:40:07 GMT -6
christian , you say it's 10% at all ranges, and dorn , you say it's 6% at point blank. Do either of you know that you're right? williammiller Fredrik W can either of you enlighten us about this? I spoke about Iowa class. I do not know how it is done in RTW. In reality inclined belt is more effective with distance as angle increased. 30% is a very optimistic general estimate though. As I just pointed out above, to get close to 30% 'theoretical' effect (not accounting for normalization or other effects on the incoming shells at all) you'd have to be looking at ranges over 22kyards to get the required angle of fall with a 20deg incline. Probably more than 26kyards for actually getting close to 30% effectiveness increase. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 22:53:28 GMT -6
In my experience, BB fleets tend to clash at about 20 000 yards or less, even with radar. Anything above are just random hits which are far too rare to cause ships sinking. So I usually use 15in of inclined belt for late game BBs and about 3-4in of deck armour. I noticed that even above 20k yards D hits are quite rare and most hits to the main armour hit the main belt instead of main deck. But 20k yards should be perfect (theoreticaly) for inclined belt, as anything above that should rise the chance of D hit instead of B (however I have not seen anything like that in practise).
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Post by smskaiser on Jun 17, 2019 8:50:30 GMT -6
In my experience, BB fleets tend to clash at about 20 000 yards or less, even with radar. Anything above are just random hits which are far too rare to cause ships sinking. So I usually use 15in of inclined belt for late game BBs and about 3-4in of deck armour. I noticed that even above 20k yards D hits are quite rare and most hits to the main armour hit the main belt instead of main deck. But 20k yards should be perfect (theoreticaly) for inclined belt, as anything above that should rise the chance of D hit instead of B (however I have not seen anything like that in practise). I actually tend towards the (possibly very stupid) decision of making 20" belt 8" deck magazine box (with inclined belt) BBs at max displacement. It is quite fun however.  |
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Post by christian on Jun 17, 2019 10:45:35 GMT -6
"Inclined belt
Inclined belt costs 10% more than a conventional belt. It adds about 10% to the protective effect of the belt, but it also entails a risk that long range hits will be converted to deck or lower belt edge hits."
quote the developers jounal
what that important "ABOUT" means i will leave you guys up to determine (talk about loose wording)
its 10% but maybe not 10% because
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Post by seawolf on Jun 17, 2019 11:00:07 GMT -6
In my experience, BB fleets tend to clash at about 20 000 yards or less, even with radar. Anything above are just random hits which are far too rare to cause ships sinking. So I usually use 15in of inclined belt for late game BBs and about 3-4in of deck armour. I noticed that even above 20k yards D hits are quite rare and most hits to the main armour hit the main belt instead of main deck. But 20k yards should be perfect (theoreticaly) for inclined belt, as anything above that should rise the chance of D hit instead of B (however I have not seen anything like that in practise). I actually tend towards the (possibly very stupid) decision of making 20" belt 8" deck magazine box (with inclined belt) BBs at max displacement. It is quite fun however. Go for 7.5 inch deck and switch to 5 and 4 inch unarmored secondaries for weight savings without losing protection |
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krawa
Junior Member
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Post by krawa on Jun 17, 2019 11:12:38 GMT -6
what that important "ABOUT" means i will leave you guys up to determine (talk about loose wording) its 10% but maybe not 10% because This is simply geometry and depends on the impact angle of the shell. For example if the shell would otherwise hit at 20° from horizontal (and that angle is increased to 30° by the belt) the relative gain in LOS armor is 8,5%. If you increase this to 30°/40° without/with inclinded belt the increase is already at 13%
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Post by secondcomingofzeno on Jun 18, 2019 4:24:06 GMT -6
IIRC the game doesn't calculate the effects of distance on inclined belt (Where further and further hits improve the effectiveness), its a flat 10% at all ranges.
Not entirely correct, but its close enough to be honest.
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Post by generalvikus on Jun 19, 2019 0:01:40 GMT -6
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