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Post by archelaos on Aug 20, 2019 7:01:52 GMT -6
One of the most typical gun setups for large DDs/DD leaders of the interwar period was 5x1 main guns and 2x3 torpedo tubes. Trying to create such ship in 1920 start, I ran into a problem, that anything over 6 weapon mounts (guns + TTs) generate -20ROF penalty.
While it was ok in RTW1 with 1500t limit of destroyer size, I believe it to be a bug in RTW2, as the restriction reaches from 1000t all the way to 2500t.
A ship over, say 1500-1800t should be allowed to have 7 centreline weapon mounts to portray ships like Scott-class leades, Kamikaze-class DDs, french contre-torpilleurs, or german interwar DDs.
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Post by tbr on Aug 20, 2019 9:24:39 GMT -6
"Crowded Centerline" should anyway only have an effect with shielded deck guns and casemates, as opposed to turrets. Shielded deck guns in RTW1 abd RTW2 are singles with 2" armor or lower, anything with more guns or armor counts as a "turret".
Shielded deck guns and casemates were supplied with ammunition by manual transport on the same deck level, and crowding indeed would impair RoF. Turrets however were/are supplied with ammo from below via through-deck elevators so crowding should not have any effect on RoF.
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Post by seawolf on Aug 20, 2019 10:39:10 GMT -6
"Crowded Centerline" should anyway only have an effect with shielded deck guns and casemates, as opposed to turrets. Shielded deck guns in RTW1 abd RTW2 are singles with 2" armor or lower, anything with more guns or armor counts as a "turret". Shielded deck guns and casemates were supplied with ammunition by manual transport on the same deck level, and crowding indeed would impair RoF. Turrets however were/are supplied with ammo from below via through-deck elevators so crowding should not have any effect on RoF. Unfortunately DD turrets cannot be armored so the 5x5inch configurations of USN destroyers and UK destroyer leaders are still useless |
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 20, 2019 10:45:11 GMT -6
One may argue that the crowding centerline space with multiple torpedo launchers and turrets should nonetheless adversely impact the ship, considering the need to position ammunition hoists around machinery spaces etc... Torpedo reload can also be affected if those were carried. I do agree a strict RoF penalty may not necessarily be the most applicable impact here, depending on the ship is designed, but I don't know what else makes more sense(perhaps a weight penalty?)
I think as long as the ships can be built, its not completely unreasonable for them to suffer some light penalty. Nevertheless I do agree that eventually there should come a point where more centerline mount should be allowed on a DD.
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Post by archelaos on Aug 20, 2019 12:35:35 GMT -6
One may argue that the crowding centerline space with multiple torpedo launchers and turrets should nonetheless adversely impact the ship, considering the need to position ammunition hoists around machinery spaces etc... Torpedo reload can also be affected if those were carried. I do agree a strict RoF penalty may not necessarily be the most applicable impact here, depending on the ship is designed, but I don't know what else makes more sense(perhaps a weight penalty?) I think as long as the ships can be built, its not completely unreasonable for them to suffer some light penalty. Nevertheless I do agree that eventually there should come a point where more centerline mount should be allowed on a DD. The sheer amount of ships built with 7 centreline mounts suggest there was no major flaw in this scheme and -20 RoF is not light penalty as it means (as I understand it) that 5 gun DD has pretty much equal firepower to 4 gunner in broadside and in fact lower (!) firepower at any angle where it can't point all guns. Essentially, there is no point in 5th gun with current maluses, and I feel this is ahistorical for big destroyers. |
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 20, 2019 12:49:18 GMT -6
One may argue that the crowding centerline space with multiple torpedo launchers and turrets should nonetheless adversely impact the ship, considering the need to position ammunition hoists around machinery spaces etc... Torpedo reload can also be affected if those were carried. I do agree a strict RoF penalty may not necessarily be the most applicable impact here, depending on the ship is designed, but I don't know what else makes more sense(perhaps a weight penalty?) I think as long as the ships can be built, its not completely unreasonable for them to suffer some light penalty. Nevertheless I do agree that eventually there should come a point where more centerline mount should be allowed on a DD. The sheer amount of ships built with 7 centreline mounts suggest there was no major flaw in this scheme and -20 RoF is not light penalty as it means (as I understand it) that 5 gun DD has pretty much equal firepower to 4 gunner in broadside and in fact lower (!) firepower at any angle where it can't point all guns. Essentially, there is no point in 5th gun with current maluses, and I feel this is ahistorical for big destroyers. I agree, but I also think that some design compromise had to be made, with the Japanese ones being noticeably top heavy. RoF, as stated above probably made more sense in a WW1 setting than the larger interwar destroyers(although its notable that many of them still use shielded mounts instead of full single turrets.) I do agree that a 5th gun is a bit heavy, and I feel the penalty can be distributed elsewhere. |
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