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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 12:07:43 GMT -6
Ok, so ironically enough, after everyone, including developers tried to write it down on the previously received damage in this previous report, of same being caused by either a 4 inch or a 6 inch shell nws-online.proboards.com/thread/5000/90k-ton-flooded-single-inchI've experienced this bug again the next day. Here's the screenshot. This time, it should be evident to everyone that it is indeed a bug (or a very bad design feature). For the previous instance, williammiller wrote it down on the fact that the ship had only 1/3 flotation available when it happened, saying that temporary repairs have collapsed or something along those lines, which still wouldn't make sense in real life imo, especially with AoN with normal height belt. This time however, this BB had no previous flotation loss and very little damage. No citadel penetrations. Going back to my analysis in the previous post, this ship has 65250 flotation units. As there are 27 bars in the floatability meter, there are 2416.6(6) flotation units per bar. Three bars have 7250 flotation units. There are two events of limited flooding and two events of increased flooding in the log. I'm not very sure on how much the flooding is increased due to high speed, but evidently, it's not a crazy high multiplier. Even if the multiplier for flooding increase due to speed is somewhat higher than it is for reduction of it, it still means that the flooding started as catastrophic. So lets say it started as 1800 per minute. Flotation is reduced by 3 bars in the screenshot and the screenshot game time is 17:24. For 3 flotation bars to go at the rate of 1800 per minute, it takes 4 minutes and one second. Of course, it's just a rough guideline, and flotation loss in the screenshot could actually be higher than 3 bars - perhaps it's 3.9 bars, but the 4th bar isn't shown yet. However, this rough guideline is enough to pinpoint the damaging hit that has caused this flooding. It becomes overwhelmingly likely that it's the highlighted 5 inch BE pen at 17:18. - edit: Someone told me they can't open the screenshot, so I'll drop a link to the uploaded one. i.ibb.co/sjHPymY/019.png
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Post by dohboy on May 28, 2020 13:19:09 GMT -6
A few questions.
How was the ROF of your medium and small guns modified? Did you download a mod or edit yourself?
You don't happen to have a sloped deck on this "AON" ship do you?
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Post by rimbecano on May 28, 2020 13:28:51 GMT -6
I'm still not convinced that it isn't the increased flooding events that are doing that (they can add a significant amount of flooding in a short time), but this screenshot certainly makes a better case that something screwy is going on than the ones you provided previously. In this case, we can account for each of the hits listed in the damage box with a line in the log, and only one of the 20" hits looks like it might have caused flotation damage or flooding at all. (The hull hit with no B/BE/D/DE designation. It doesn't have a * to indicate penetration, but it also isn't listed as having hit any particular area of armor).
If I'm right about the observed flooding being from the increased flooding events, then that particular shot was almost certainly what opened up the initial hole. Otherwise, there's at least *something* wrong with some part of the flotation damage code.
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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 13:44:52 GMT -6
A few questions. How was the ROF of your medium and small guns modified? Did you download a mod or edit yourself? You don't happen to have a sloped deck on this "AON" ship do you? Again with your 'unknown person mods a game in unknown ways, gets confused and does bad things to the game'? My version of the RoF mod slightly increases 18 inch, 19 inch and 20 inch shell weights (by a few percent). It makes RoF much more realistic for small caliber guns - or as realistic as it's possible to make it with limitation of the hardcoded limit of 4 rounds per minute, while still maintaining a curve of RoF differentiation for smaller caliber. It also very slightly increases 19 inch and 20 inch shell range. Here's the file. I'd encourage you to use it. Gundata.dat (264 B)
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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 14:09:24 GMT -6
I'm still not convinced that it isn't the increased flooding events that are doing that (they can add a significant amount of flooding in a short time), but this screenshot certainly makes a better case that something screwy is going on than the ones you provided previously. In this case, we can account for each of the hits listed in the damage box with a line in the log, and only one of the 20" hits looks like it might have caused flotation damage or flooding at all. (The hull hit with no B/BE/D/DE designation. It doesn't have a * to indicate penetration, but it also isn't listed as having hit any particular area of armor). If I'm right about the observed flooding being from the increased flooding events, then that particular shot was almost certainly what opened up the initial hole. Otherwise, there's at least *something* wrong with some part of the flotation damage code. Ok, so amazingly, even with it being presented so clearly, there still are some people trying to make excuses for it. No, this dramatic flooding wasn't caused by the 'high speed increases flooding' event. Yes it can stack up to a significant amount in a relatively short period of time, but not in a few minutes and not with just two instances of it. I haven't reduced speed for several minutes from when the screenshot was taken, and the flooding was increased to just over 1900 after a few more instances of it being increased due to high speed. Also, besides those two flooding increases in the log, there are two flooding decreases. Regarding it opening previous hits - there were just a few hits that could have potentially caused flooding prior to this 5 inch BE pen. They are two 5 inch hits and one 20 inch hit. Yet it's literally impossible for these 3 hits to cause so much flooding, even if somehow opened fully and simultaneously. Additionally, I will repeat that the ship had no flooding and no flotation loss previously, which completely eliminates even the most remote possibility of previous damage stacking up and all the previous DC repair collapsing at once, from one small shell hit - or something similarly ridiculous.
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Post by dohboy on May 28, 2020 14:26:16 GMT -6
Again with your 'unknown person mods a game in unknown ways, gets confused and does bad things to the game'? My version of the RoF mod slightly increases 18 inch, 19 inch and 20 inch shell weights (by a few percent). It makes RoF much more realistic for small caliber guns - or as realistic as it's possible to make it with limitation of the hardcoded limit of 4 rounds per minute, while still maintaining a curve of RoF differentiation for smaller caliber. It also very slightly increases 19 inch and 20 inch shell range. Here's the file. I'd encourageyoutouse it. But... you've been complaining for two days about unrealistic flooding problems you are getting, problems I don't seem to have. And the deck? Is it nice and flat like it should be?
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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 14:50:02 GMT -6
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Post by Noname117 on May 28, 2020 15:21:49 GMT -6
What if you saved the game, either during war or during peace, then reloaded it a bunch of times, playing out a battle each time with one of those BBs until you get the event again, and record your sessions. If you're at war, it's easy to just go to the next turn and reload if the battle isn't what you want. If it's peacetime, just do a fleet exercise and pit it up against some of your own ships. See what you get, and see what changes in different situations. That would also provide better proof as to what is going on and when.
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Post by nobody on May 28, 2020 15:25:32 GMT -6
Have you finished the battle? Can we have the same log from the post battle results screen?
There are two 5 inch pens and the "high speed increases flooding" event that almost certainly caused part of that high flooding value. However, even with the post battle log we won't be able to distinguish between the 2nd 5" hit and the two "high speed" events. The "high speed" can cause an increase in the hundreds on smaller ships (say 20kt) so I expect that to be the biggest culprit in this case.
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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 15:49:30 GMT -6
Have you finished the battle? Can we have the same log from the post battle results screen? There are two 5 inch pens and the "high speed increases flooding" event that almost certainly caused part of that high flooding value. However, even with the post battle log we won't be able to distinguish between the 2nd 5" hit and the "high speed" event. The "high speed" can cause an increase in the hundreds on smaller ships (say 20kt) so I expect that to be the biggest culprit in this case. In my original post and in one of the replies, I've explained why the two 'flooding increase due to high speed' events are irrelevant here. Post battle result screen has absolutely nothing to do with this report. Yet again, I have to deal with such comments, in this report as well.
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Post by dohboy on May 28, 2020 15:51:44 GMT -6
Your'e not likely to have to deal with too many more with that attitude of yours.
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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 16:22:03 GMT -6
What if you saved the game, either during war or during peace, then reloaded it a bunch of times, playing out a battle each time with one of those BBs until you get the event again, and record your sessions. If you're at war, it's easy to just go to the next turn and reload if the battle isn't what you want. If it's peacetime, just do a fleet exercise and pit it up against some of your own ships. See what you get, and see what changes in different situations. That would also provide better proof as to what is going on and when. I'm sorry, but bughunting in this game is not my job. I'm only willing to help with reporting what I encounter in my usual gameplay, but I won't go out of it and hunt for bugs for this purpose. If the replies from the devs would have been indicative of wanting to pinpoint this obvious bug, and if other people would have been less denying, then I perhaps would go on and test it. Yet what I've received was denial of the obvious and excuses, which is actually nothing unusual considering other posts on this forum. So as it is, I'm particularly lacking of motivation to do what you've asked. Regarding a better proof, this report is clear enough imo, for conclusion to be made that there's a bug involving massive flooding and low / medium caliber pens, likely of BE. It has enough other details, to start testing it and / or to look at the code. I'll add a screenshot that christian / Woah showed on discord not long ago, indicating the same bug quite clearly. i.ibb.co/5TJKSkD/unknown-23-3.png
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Post by Noname117 on May 28, 2020 16:33:07 GMT -6
That one is definitely older, but yeah, that's definitely a bug.
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Post by deadmetal on May 28, 2020 16:35:12 GMT -6
That one is definitely older, but yeah, that's definitely a bug. Right, I didn't look at the date. So yeah, here's the same bug.
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Post by nobody on May 28, 2020 16:35:58 GMT -6
In my original post and in one of the replies, I've explained why the two 'flooding increase due to high speed' events are irrelevant here. Post battle result screen has absolutely nothing to do with this report. Yet again, I have to deal with such comments, in this report as well. Okay... just make sure that we're talking about the same thing. What exactly is the thorn in your side here? - is it the absurd amount of progressive flooding (which I assumed) or - is it the total flotation damage taken? Post battle results are always interesting and helpful, because they provide additional information. You cannot assume I've read the replies, because they were not present yet when I started writing my post. It just took me a while to do so. Why so hostile?
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