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Post by seawolf on Jun 25, 2020 13:46:26 GMT -6
It would be nice if we could see a more detailed calculation of sloped deck weight.
For example, as the ship gets faster the HP needed should increase, as sloped deck means a wider beam and worse hull form.
This could also be represented by a direct increase in sloped deck weight corresponding to speed, similarly to belt armor now.
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Post by nobody on Jun 25, 2020 15:11:17 GMT -6
It would be nice if we could see a more detailed calculation of sloped deck weight. Yes. Especially for protected cruisers. No. Whether you use sloped deck or not has no impact on the beam or hull form at all. It might be heavier, but that too has nothing to do with speed. Why do think it should and why would speed influence belt weight? |
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Post by seawolf on Jun 25, 2020 18:17:01 GMT -6
It would be nice if we could see a more detailed calculation of sloped deck weight. Yes. Especially for protected cruisers. No. Whether you use sloped deck or not has no impact on the beam or hull form at all. It might be heavier, but that too has nothing to do with speed. Why do think it should and why would speed influence belt weight? Sloped deck increases beam, due to the space needed to slope the deck, in addition to the normal space required for machinery and other parts of the citadel See dreadnought here  This increases the beam, relative to what is optimal. Having a higher beam isn't a problem at low speeds, but at high speeds a length to beam ratio becomes more important In order to compensate, you either have to lengthen the ship longer than it otherwise would be, or add more horsepower to achieve a given speed. See all of the German ships in WWII that were much larger than they needed to be because they had both a sloped deck and high speed |
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Post by nobody on Jun 26, 2020 12:07:14 GMT -6
Sloped deck increases beam, due to the space needed to slope the deck, in addition to the normal space required for machinery and other parts of the citadel This increases the beam, relative to what is optimal. No it does not. First of all the side of the hull is unused anyway (as part of the torpedo protection. It is either empty or used for bunkers) wheter you put a flat deck there or sloped or even none at all doesn't affect the beam at all. Second, even it was needed for machinery, the difference would be small and not warrant changing the beam. You can even argue the other way around, that the raised portion give you more space and you could make the beam smaller. Yes it is heavier than a flat deck of the same thickness, but that's it. There is no reason whatsoever to penalize it beyond that. Yes, but nothing beyond that. There are many reasons why the German WW2 ships were so big an under performing, the sloped deck is not the reason ships like Bismarck so as long and wide. Her low draft is. And the main reason for her width is torpedo protection. Fun fact Bismarck's designers were concerned if the beam effected the speed. They made hydrodynamic tests and proved that it didn't really matter it that case. |
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Post by seawolf on Jun 26, 2020 12:31:09 GMT -6
Sloped deck increases beam, due to the space needed to slope the deck, in addition to the normal space required for machinery and other parts of the citadel This increases the beam, relative to what is optimal. No it does not. First of all the side of the hull is unused anyway (as part of the torpedo protection. It is either empty or used for bunkers) wheter you put a flat deck there or sloped or even none at all doesn't affect the beam at all. Second, even it was needed for machinery, the difference would be small and not warrant changing the beam. You can even argue the other way around, that the raised portion give you more space and you could make the beam smaller. Yes it is heavier than a flat deck of the same thickness, but that's it. There is no reason whatsoever to penalize it beyond that. Yes, but nothing beyond that. There are many reasons why the German WW2 ships were so big an under performing, the sloped deck is not the reason ships like Bismarck so as long and wide. Her low draft is. And the main reason for her width is torpedo protection. Fun fact Bismarck's designers were concerned if the beam effected the speed. They made hydrodynamic tests and proved that it didn't really matter it that case. Bismarcks draft was literally 10cm less than her contemporaries, or 1% Her beam didn’t effect speed because they made her long enough to compensate. The length beam ratio of ship is a large factor in its speed efficiency. That’s simple physics Now whether German ships extra beam, and thus their oversized form, comes from their sloped deck or TPS I Will look into They’re about 15% wider than other ships, even more for Graf Zeppelin |
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Post by seawolf on Jun 26, 2020 12:44:05 GMT -6
It does seem like that the sloped deck mainly caused space problems Attachments:
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Post by nobody on Jun 26, 2020 14:05:32 GMT -6
Whether you put your deck low or high is a completely different question. Take Yamato, which had a high turtle deck, or image a King George with the armor deck two decks lower.
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Post by seawolf on Jun 26, 2020 14:41:36 GMT -6
Whether you put your deck low or high is a completely different question. Take Yamato, which had a high turtle deck, or image a King George with the armor deck two decks lower. Umm. No. Check the attachment above. KGVs deck, or any AON deck, will be on top of the belt Yamato's deck isn't flat, but it is an AON deck on top of the belt A turtleback like Bismarck has the deck behind the belt, making it necessarily low in the ship |
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