I think I found the random seed

[ck07]

I have seen on these forums a suggestion that the target, beyond being on the list of surprise target locations, must be in the attacker's home area or an adjacent one.

What else is required besides being a surprise attack eligible power? (Is Japan always one?)

-Do your ships have to be in the target area, or in your home area?
-Does it matter how many surprise attacks you've had before, either total or against that power?
-Does it matter how the war starts?
-Other things I'm not thinking of?

I ask because, after I thought I had solved a problem of JA being unable to surprise attack vs. RU, 35 years later I can't get one vs. US in ~15 tries.

Thanks.

[ck07]

I think I found the random seed, or part of it. The 18th line under [General] is IDNo. Starting with the same save file as before, I changed the # and ran it forward until war 4 times, getting 3 surprise attacks. Then I tried again using another (old save file and got 0 out five. Then another and got 3 out of 3: 1 surprise attack (when USA did not own Shanghai) and 2 surprise invasions (when it did). I suppose this means that you don't get both. If anywhere he can confirm or deny that, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, I now wonder whether, if you experimented with IDNo enough, you could generate almost any outcome to any "random" event as long as you don't save again first.

In limited exploration I also found that IDNo seems to always rise from one save file to the next within the same game. It may across games too, in the sense that when I started a new game as different power it was assigned a # lower than any save from my current game except 1900-1. So it must serve some other purpose besides random seed, at least for recording. Does anyone know?

I don't think changing IDNo breaks anything. I ran the edited save game forward as far as 18 months without any odd behvaior.


While we're here, does anyone know: When there are 2 or more possible surprise attack targets, what determines which one you get? The one with the most ships would seem to make sense, but IDK if that is what I have seen.

[aeson]

If I recall correctly, IDNo is the counter for the unique identifier given to each ship in the save file.

[ck07]

Jun 12, 2022 9:10:39 GMT -6 aeson said:

If I recall correctly, IDNo is the counter for the unique identifier given to each ship in the save file.

That counter is called Ship##Id, e.g. Ship11Id=785. (That particular one, in that game, is an Italian shore battery.)

[aeson]

Jun 12, 2022 9:46:10 GMT -6 ck07 said:

Jun 12, 2022 9:10:39 GMT -6 aeson said:

If I recall correctly, IDNo is the counter for the unique identifier given to each ship in the save file.

That counter is called Ship##Id, e.g. Ship11Id=785. (That particular one, in that game, is an Italian shore battery.)

Ship##Id is the permanent unique ID number for that particular vessel; it is not a counter, nor would any sensible programmer use it as one.

If you require convincing that IDNo is the counter used to assign the unique identifier given to each ship in the save file, then I would suggest that you conduct the following experiment: Save the game, open the *.bcs file, and record the number in the IDNo line. Without advancing the turn, lay down a ship and save the game again, and record the numbers in the IDNo line and the Ship##Id line for the ship you just laid down.

[ck07]

Jun 12, 2022 13:24:33 GMT -6 aeson said:

Jun 12, 2022 9:46:10 GMT -6 ck07 said:

That counter is called Ship##Id, e.g. Ship11Id=785. (That particular one, in that game, is an Italian shore battery.)

Ship##Id is the permanent unique ID number for that particular vessel; it is not a counter, nor would any sensible programmer use it as one.

If you require convincing that IDNo is the counter used to assign the unique identifier given to each ship in the save file, then I would suggest that you conduct the following experiment: Save the game, open the *.bcs file, and record the number in the IDNo line. Without advancing the turn, lay down a ship and save the game again, and record the numbers in the IDNo line and the Ship##Id line for the ship you just laid down.

My apologies. I shouldn't have called Ship#ID a counter, nor assumed that it wasn't influenced by something else. I mistakenly thought you meant that IDNo was actually the last Ship#ID to be assigned or the next that would be.

I'm still interested that IDNo is also serving in some way as the random seed, or as some kind of input to it. Also that changing it to a smaller number does not seem to break the game.

Do you know the answer to my other question: Does the availability of a surprise invasion target bar getting a surprise attack? (Related, what if there is a location that is valid for either? I tried this and again got the invasion, but have not done enough trials to tell whether this is a rule.)

Thanks.

[aeson]

Jun 13, 2022 6:20:01 GMT -6 ck07 said:

I mistakenly thought you meant that IDNo was actually ... the next that would be.

This is exactly what IDNo is.

Also that changing it to a smaller number does not seem to break the game.

You might want to talk to seawolf about that; as I recall, he had some issues with at least one of the 'historical legacy fleet' mods which were resolved by setting the IDNo line to a number greater than any number used for a ship ID in the modded save file.

[seawolf]

Yeah, IDNo is just a function that assigns an ID to every new ship/coastal defense/squadron in the game. It increases by one every time a number is assigned.
If its higher than it needs to be, there's no effect, but if its lower than it needs to be duplicate IDs will be created, which will cause lots of issues like
1. If a duplicate ID ship gets into a battle with its counterpart, many things break.
2. If a squadron has a duplicate ID, it will reset to -1, preventing the squadron from ever upgrading aircraft
3. If a duplicate ID ship is sunk, sometimes its counterpart will be sunk instead.
4. If an aircraft carrier or airbase has a duplicate ID then its squadrons might not show up for battle.

[ck07]

Jun 13, 2022 13:28:07 GMT -6 seawolf said:

Yeah, IDNo is just a function that assigns an ID to every new ship/coastal defense/squadron in the game. It increases by one every time a number is assigned.
If its higher than it needs to be, there's no effect, but if its lower than it needs to be duplicate IDs will be created, which will cause lots of issues like
1. If a duplicate ID ship gets into a battle with its counterpart, many things break.
2. If a squadron has a duplicate ID, it will reset to -1, preventing the squadron from ever upgrading aircraft
3. If a duplicate ID ship is sunk, sometimes its counterpart will be sunk instead.
4. If an aircraft carrier or airbase has a duplicate ID then its squadrons might not show up for battle.

That is useful to know, thanks.