Rebuild or not rebuild?

[archelaos]

Simple question: Do you rebuild ships that turn obsolete? I do NOT mean refitting FC, adding mines etc., but specyficaly the ships that are obsolete. Like old DDs that work only on CP patrols.
 
Is there any benefit in rebuilding them? Or is it better to keep them in line, to preserve crew quality?

Does anyone know if obsolete modifier makes the ships worse in some way (I know they are a bit more expensive to maintain)?

[wolfpack]

I rebuild old dds just so I can keep modern dds in the fight where they are needed I rebuild old ca's to make good medium range raiders
Old cl's make nice raiders or just tonnage increasers the only ones I don't rebuild after 1908 are the pre-dreadnoughts

[director]

I do rebuild old DDs for use as ASW/CP ships. I do rarely rebuild an AC by replacing the engines. I do not rebuild old CLs unless they are really exceptional. My experience with using old, slow ships for commerce raiding has not been good; I find they get run down and sunk, and the VPs I lose in combat far outweighs the VPs they can earn by sinking merchant ships.

[RNRobert]

Early in the game I will construct some big (around 15ktons) fast (22-24 knots) ACs for use as commerce raiders, and I find that engine rebuilds will make them useful for many years. However, I've found that the pre-dreadnoughts get little or no speed advantage from replacing the engines, so if I revamp that all, it is simply a modest rebuild, upgrading the fire control and gun elevation to improve their gunnery, and adding bulges to increase their survivability. My legacy cruisers and destroyers usually get no rebuilds- as I am able to get more newer ships in service, they are relegated to coastal patrol duties (and in reserve in peacetime).

[ikahime]

I rebuild anything larger than a CA, CLs DDs and MS get recycled. I used to refit mines and torpedoes onto CLs, but I've decided it's just better to make a new model.

The larger the tonnage, the more likely a ship is going to benefit from new technologies. BBs usually have tonnage to spare for upgrades, but if you want your cruisers to be fast, it's better to just start from scratch to take advantage of all the weight saving technology you've probably unlocked since you started. You'll probably also be replacing combat losses more frequently.


That said, my refitted early game battle-cruisers tend to become liabilities late game when they still lack any form of torpedo protection. It's kind of depressing when this happens.

[cv10]

If a ship is old enough (and obsolete) steaming at high speeds can cause engine problems. I'll rebuild a few of my big 15k ton cruisers with oil engines, and that's usually not too expensive. I find that its generally the speed increases (really tempting to try to get that 24 knot ship up to 30) that drive up the cost of a ship rebuild. I'll rebuild old destroyers to keep them around for Coastal Patrol, and since there aren't any major restrictions to rebuilding their armaments, I'll generally replace the main battery with duel or superimposed turrets (weight permitting) and strip off the bulk of the torpedos. That last bit is more a stylistic choice (makes me think that they'll stand up to enemy submarines in a surface fight better).

[garrisonchisholm]

For my part, and as will be seen, I never rebuild DD's. I do build a lot of them however. I like to have my ASW at x2 the threat, so the old dd's (once 1100+ ton replacements are available in numbers) just get mothballed and then trotted out for the CP pool for the next conflict. The never even get their paint touched up. [though I would change this if someone told me an Obsolete 1899 dd was less effective in anti-sub patrol than a re-fitted one]

My CL's also get dumped into the CP pool when modern CL's become available (though I will be testing out a new concept in my next game), and do not ever get refitted.

My CA's and B's will get upgraded, as I have recently become fixated on a new late rebuild option (presuming cash is not gross issue).

My DN's always get touched up, and a class really has to prove itself a vulnerable death trap before I scrap it. In fact, I think in my 30-odd+ games I have scrapped less than 10 ships. A ship is more than cash, it is a commitment to converting Time into Tonnage, and scrapping is (to me) just tossing away tonnage that could (under the right circumstances) help control a sea zone.

In fact, until reading these boards I never even knew there was a Museum Ship random event, so infrequently do I do so.

[JagdFlanker]

i rebuild everything after every war so every 3-6 years, but if something has been in service for 10+ years i'l almost always scrap it to make budget room for newer ships building in the shipyards


i never scrap MS - by game's end there's always a few 1899 MS still alive in my fleet

[wolfpack]

Feb 28, 2017 21:51:25 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

For my part, and as will be seen, I never rebuild DD's. I do build a lot of them however. I like to have my ASW at x2 the threat, so the old dd's (once 1100+ ton replacements are available in numbers) just get mothballed and then trotted out for the CP pool for the next conflict. The never even get their paint touched up. [though I would change this if someone told me an Obsolete 1899 dd was less effective in anti-sub patrol than a re-fitted one]

My CL's also get dumped into the CP pool when modern CL's become available (though I will be testing out a new concept in my next game), and do not ever get refitted.

My CA's and B's will get upgraded, as I have recently become fixated on a new late rebuild option (presuming cash is not gross issue).

My DN's always get touched up, and a class really has to prove itself a vulnerable death trap before I scrap it. In fact, I think in my 30-odd+ games I have scrapped less than 10 ships. A ship is more than cash, it is a commitment to converting Time into Tonnage, and scrapping is (to me) just tossing away tonnage that could (under the right circumstances) help control a sea zone.

In fact, until reading these boards I never even knew there was a Museum Ship random event, so infrequently do I do so.

I've only ever gotten the museum event as Germany for a pre dread that sunk two French b's and several cruisers I kinda wish you had to option to foot the bill so to speak for museum ships so that badass ship that sunk sverything it fought but is just to old to keep up could become a memorial

[bcoopactual]

Feb 28, 2017 15:20:50 GMT -6 archelaos said:

Simple question: Do you rebuild ships that turn obsolete? I do NOT mean refitting FC, adding mines etc., but specyficaly the ships that are obsolete. Like old DDs that work only on CP patrols.
 
Is there any benefit in rebuilding them? Or is it better to keep them in line, to preserve crew quality?

Does anyone know if obsolete modifier makes the ships worse in some way (I know they are a bit more expensive to maintain)?

Here is a quote from Fredrik on the subject.

Aug 21, 2016 5:06:05 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

Ships on coastal patrol have a chance to show up as patrolling ships in battles in the area where they patrol. If too few are available, some generic patrol boats of very limited value except reporting the enemy will be thrown in.

The type of ship will also influence how effective they are against submarines, with MS and DD being best. Obsolete ships will perform be less effective. (italics mine) Q-ships (AMC) can be effective against subs if you have invented q-ships.

Here's a link to the thread I quoted him from if anyone is curious to review it.  

Based on that, I try to follow JagdFlanker 's advice and always do a blank rebuild (go through the rebuild process without making any actual changes to the ship) of my old DD's and MS's that I use for CP/ASW right after the end of the latest war so that they are good to go for the next eight years or so. It's very frustrating to have an unexpected war flare up while you are trying to cycle your fleet through the rebuilds or to be in a war and suddenly have a bunch of your patrol vessels suddenly display the obsolete tag.

Also, I have had MS ships with the obsolete tag (O) self scrap because I missed them at the bottom of the ship list and too much time passed without refitting the ship.

[garrisonchisholm]

Mar 1, 2017 8:44:17 GMT -6 bcoopactual said:

Here is a quote from Fredrik on the subject.

Aug 21, 2016 5:06:05 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

Ships on coastal patrol have a chance to show up as patrolling ships in battles in the area where they patrol. If too few are available, some generic patrol boats of very limited value except reporting the enemy will be thrown in.

The type of ship will also influence how effective they are against submarines, with MS and DD being best. Obsolete ships will perform be less effective. (italics mine) Q-ships (AMC) can be effective against subs if you have invented q-ships.

Here's a link to the thread I quoted him from if anyone is curious to review it.  

Based on that, I try to follow JagdFlanker 's advice and always do a blank rebuild (go through the rebuild process without making any actual changes to the ship) of my old DD's and MS's that I use for CP/ASW right after the end of the latest war so that they are good to go for the next eight years or so. It's very frustrating to have an unexpected war flare up while you are trying to cycle your fleet through the rebuilds or to be in a war and suddenly have a bunch of your patrol vessels suddenly display the obsolete tag.

Also, I have had MS ships with the obsolete tag (O) self scrap because I missed them at the bottom of the ship list and too much time passed without refitting the ship.

Wow.  Well!  That's exactly the info that will change my pattern- thanks bcoopactual .  I will definitely see about updating obsolete DD's now.

And here's how myopic I am- when I saw MSs self-scrap, I thought that was a built in feature os the type, a longevity of only 10 years or so.  Consequently, I stopped building them Entirely as I saw it as wasted cash.

[axe99]

I tend to rebuild most of my ships at some point, but generally don't go for large rebuilds (so still scrap quite a few ships, particularly CLs/CAs/Bs - I tend to keep the DDs around for ASW/CP). That said, my next game I'm planning to have a 'garrisonchisholm' game where I deliberately don't scrap anything, and try and rebuild old ships to be the best that they can be.

[JagdFlanker]

another thing to keep in mind about even blank rebuilds is if new applicable techs were researched since the last rebuild (for example improved turrets), those techs will be retrofitted onto any rebuilt ship

since blank rebuilds are generally cost-neutral it's never a bad idea to blank rebuild all your ships every 5 years or so, or if your timing is really good just before a new war starts so your ships are 'topped up' with the latest tech

i even go so far as to immediately do a blank rebuild on brand new just-launched ships that are on WU (workup) because i assume the tech equipped on that ship is from when the ship was laid down which could be as old as 30 months for a Bx

[archelaos]

The problem with common rebuilds of DDs I see is you loose Elite crew quality, and you would most probably not regain it in case of CP/ASW ships.

In the light of the comment by Fredrik, It would be interesting to know what is "stronger": malus from the "obsolete" or bonus from the Elite crew

[garrisonchisholm]

Mar 1, 2017 14:52:44 GMT -6 axe99 said:

I tend to rebuild most of my ships at some point, but generally don't go for large rebuilds (so still scrap quite a few ships, particularly CLs/CAs/Bs - I tend to keep the DDs around for ASW/CP). That said, my next game I'm planning to have a 'garrisonchisholm' game where I deliberately don't scrap anything, and try and rebuild old ships to be the best that they can be.

LOL   I am amused, tickled, & faintly humbled.  Good luck!