|
Post by marcorossolini on May 12, 2019 4:32:00 GMT -6
I'll admit, I'd like to see those designs in a game properly played out on the battlemap. I suspect 1 inch of belt armour mightn't be so tempting!
|
|
|
Post by griffin01 on May 12, 2019 4:40:25 GMT -6
I'll admit, I'd like to see those designs in a game properly played out on the battlemap. I suspect 1 inch of belt armour mightn't be so tempting! I think that an important consideration is that preservation of one's ships was a secondary concern - the primary objective was to lose less than the enemy will. I suppose that the value of armour increases as the long-term cost of losing a ship does.
|
|
|
Post by aeson on May 12, 2019 6:47:32 GMT -6
I think that an important consideration is that preservation of one's ships was a secondary concern - the primary objective was to lose less than the enemy will. I suppose that the value of armour increases as the long-term cost of losing a ship does. Perhaps a bit, but within the game designs like those are very, very susceptible to debilitating critical hits and to flashfires and magazine explosions. I could easily see ships like those failing to survive the opening salvo, if hits were scored.
|
|
|
Post by christian on May 12, 2019 6:55:38 GMT -6
was a nice game almost had the win but alekius fleet was just better than mine
good tournament kept me on edge constantly
|
|
|
Post by dorn on May 12, 2019 9:20:48 GMT -6
was a nice game almost had the win but alekius fleet was just better than mine good tournament kept me on edge constantly
In this case it was luck, I will elaborate it hereafter.
Relating to the system. RTW has complex system of range, penetration, damage. It is not possible to do some simplicity without sacrification in this system. tortugapower did it by using range by caliber, speed for disengegament and pursuit.
However the most important was attack and defence rating of the ship with mostly important that defence rating has minimal value on fight. So most important value was attack value of the ship. So any designs which do not follow basic principle maximalizing attack value has no chance in this contest (this include any reasonable designs of capital ships for RTW). To maximalize attack value there were main factor: - maximum torpedoes (included submerged) as they add most attack value for tonnage - maximalize guns (16" minimal as it has maximum range fight can occur, 15" does not have it) As long as designs do with this principles it has reasonable chance to win.
To maximalize defence value there were main factors: - conning tower armour - other type of armour (belt, turret top, extended belt, deck, extended deck) - normal/narrow armour has no effect as TDS has no effect
But most important factor is luck. The damage range is quite high as maximum damage per round is more than 3 times higher than minimal. Similar important is if you hit at this round (how it is done I do not know). So if you look at this random factor there are huge in case the designs of ships is high. This is because of best designs has high attack value able to destroy same type of ship by 1 to 3 hits. So if this type of designs will face ordinary RTW designs, win is sure as their damage potential is more than 2 times higher so luck cannot help. However if fights 2 types of designs with similar principles and their damage potential is similar (something about +-10 %) than luck is the most important factor and quality of designs can do something around 1-2 % of increase chance to win, may be even less. If quality have any significant effect there is need of high number of combats - meaning dozens.
|
|
|
Post by chainsawjoe911 on May 12, 2019 11:02:40 GMT -6
I really loved the "Chadnoughts" as I call them. The all guns and no armor schemes. truly a 10/10 meme
|
|
|
Post by alekius on May 12, 2019 15:21:19 GMT -6
I really want to start a new game now using the sort of design philosophy I used for the tournament just to see what concessions I'll have to make to have them be usable ships. However, RtW2 comes out soon enough that I'm going to be in the middle of the campaign before it gets to late tech when the release occurs.
|
|
|
Post by dorn on May 12, 2019 15:52:13 GMT -6
I really want to start a new game now using the sort of design philosophy I used for the tournament just to see what concessions I'll have to make to have them be usable ships. However, RtW2 comes out soon enough that I'm going to be in the middle of the campaign before it gets to late tech when the release occurs. It could work against AI in late game but till armour has good chance to deflect hits, it wins. Having higher caliber than 16" has no reason as AI is unable to protect even against 16" and quite often 15" guns are enough. Torpedoes has no sence as AI is designed only for destroyers.
|
|
|
Post by aeson on May 12, 2019 16:33:55 GMT -6
Torpedoes has no sence as AI is designed only for destroyers. That's not entirely true. You don't get the torpedo range circle unless you have a ship with torpedoes in the selected division, so there's a UI incentive to include at least one torpedo on a design even if you never intend to make use of it, and the larger ships - including capital ships - do occasionally make use of torpedoes if they have them. The bigger issues for torpedo use on major warships tend to be that a ship's gun armament - especially later in the game - is generally good enough to defeat a comparable opponent, that you don't really want major warships getting into torpedo range in the first place because they're too valuable to risk like that if you can avoid it, and that submerged tubes are both a potential liability due to the risk of flooding and are not as easy to use as the swivel-mounted tubes due to the limit on the speed at which they can be used and the more limited firing arc resulting from the fixed nature of the tube.
|
|
|
Post by tortugapower on May 13, 2019 14:31:47 GMT -6
was a nice game almost had the win but alekius fleet was just better than mine good tournament kept me on edge constantly In this case it was luck, I will elaborate it hereafter. In the case of alekius 's design vs. christian 's, I don't think luck influenced the result. We saw that Alekius' design consistently beat Christian's. For version 0.512 of the simulator, Alekius' design was superior, and it won every time accordingly. I agree, and I think this accurately represents end-game combat in RtW as well. That was true in the v. 0.504 simulator, but not true for the 0.511 version used in the tournament. Not exactly: the maximum damage difference is 3x. You say "quite high", although I'm unsure of whether this range is too little or too big, compared to RtW possible hit results. (The difference between waterline hit and superstructure passthrough is maybe more like 20x difference.) Either I didn't understand you, or this is not correct. A +/- 10% design change will result in a +/- 10% chance of winning in my simulator (averaging over an ensemble).
|
|
|
Post by randomnessinc on May 14, 2019 10:15:54 GMT -6
Man, i wasn’t able to say earlier, but your reaction to my Finality-class destroyer was hysterical.
|
|