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Post by generalvikus on Aug 15, 2019 2:44:41 GMT -6
Those ships don't even look like they'd be remotely possible to fit on their displacements even with late game tech. What's the deal? EDIT: That explains it - why is the Nelson doing 32 knots? That’s G3 and N3 for the no WNT start and no the models in game would make them 70000 tons, so I had to modify them They had really thick deck armor compared to its weight Yeah, that just goes to show how divergent the models are from reality - or, at least, paper reality - at the higher end of the scale. Will the modified displacement for these ships make them impossible to refit? It's a difficult issue, because with the modified displacement, these designs are going to be way more cost - effective than anything the player could design subsequently; you might literally just want to keep building more ships to the same designs for the next 20 years, because the advantages you'd gain from advancing technology probably aren't worth the extra cost entailed by 20kt of extra displacement. What are your thoughts on this issue? And, more broadly, has anybody had any thoughts about rectifying the exponential growth of larger ships relative to smaller designs? It seems to me that, beyond the obvious horsepower problem, which I know seawolf is in the process of rectifying, there must also be something seriously wrong with the armour curves at the higher end of the scale. Has anybody confirmed or refuted that assumption? |
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Post by archelaos on Aug 15, 2019 7:07:14 GMT -6
Those ships don't even look like they'd be remotely possible to fit on their displacements even with late game tech. What's the deal? EDIT: That explains it - why is the Nelson doing 32 knots? That’s G3 and N3 for the no WNT start and no the models in game would make them 70000 tons, so I had to modify them They had really thick deck armor compared to its weight There are multiple problems:
1. I'm not sure those were ready projects, more like design proposals, so: 2. In the actual project stage they would either be made larger or armour would be cut down
3. Armour was planned as very unequal - for example G3 was supposed to have max thickness of only around magazines (14in belt, 8in deck) while machinery and secondary magazines would have 9-12in belt, 4-7in deck). I'm pretty sure game do not models so large variations (almost to the point where you should use "box over magazine" armour option)
4. Do we even know that those were ever planned for building (as UK have no money for them)? Maybe they were created for Washington Treaty, to be used in negotiations as both US and Japan planned such large ships.
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Post by seawolf on Aug 15, 2019 9:56:33 GMT -6
Vikus and Archelaos i’ll definitely be making changes to their designs but I just started with historical stats to get this released
From what I've found the nations could afford the first round of ships but a protracted arms race would have hurt all sides. For Ex the British could afford G3 and N3 but could not easily afford successors to those
I've run into some bugs anyways so I'm trying to use notepad++ to mass fix the files but until then I have to suspend work on the starts.
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Post by seawolf on Aug 15, 2019 15:22:00 GMT -6
No Treaty start is back up
If anyone can playtest and report bugs that would be great
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Post by generalvikus on Sept 4, 2019 17:48:30 GMT -6
seawolf is the mod currently compatible with v 1.08?
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Post by seawolf on Sept 4, 2019 20:13:40 GMT -6
seawolf is the mod currently compatible with v 1.08? Yep no issues so far |
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Post by generalvikus on Sept 5, 2019 4:53:34 GMT -6
Great!
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Post by dizzy on Sept 9, 2019 0:21:57 GMT -6
Thanks for this, Seawolf. Giving it a go. I'm trying USA and noticed that the Omaha CL's are funky. On the Ships in Service window under the Description column it shows the Omaha's having 10x 6 Inch guns. Which historically they had 12. But when I Open Design, the design is overweight 2,692 tons and under Gun Armament, it shows having 2x twin 6 Inch Turrets and then six more 0 single gun mounts. Shouldnt it say 1? At 0 they dont show on the UI.
Just a funky ship. Will it fight in combat with 10x 6" or will it only have 4? The UI shows only 4.
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Post by seawolf on Sept 9, 2019 0:45:28 GMT -6
Thanks for this, Seawolf. Giving it a go. I'm trying USA and noticed that the Omaha CL's are funky. On the Ships in Service window under the Description column it shows the Omaha's having 10x 6 Inch guns. Which historically they had 12. But when I Open Design, the design is overweight 2,692 tons and under Gun Armament, it shows having 2x twin 6 Inch Turrets and then six more 0 single gun mounts. Shouldnt it say 1? At 0 they dont show on the UI. Just a funky ship. Will it fight in combat with 10x 6" or will it only have 4? The UI shows only 4. That’s the ui for casemate guns its a bit weird The ships are fine in combat and I’ll check why it’s missing a pair of casemate guns. (The Omaha’s had 2x2 and 8 casemate 6 inch guns) |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 9, 2019 0:48:30 GMT -6
Ok, thx for the reply. I'll get playing and see what happens. Love the OOB!
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Post by Enderminion on Sept 9, 2019 14:25:55 GMT -6
Thanks for this, Seawolf. Giving it a go. I'm trying USA and noticed that the Omaha CL's are funky. On the Ships in Service window under the Description column it shows the Omaha's having 10x 6 Inch guns. Which historically they had 12. But when I Open Design, the design is overweight 2,692 tons and under Gun Armament, it shows having 2x twin 6 Inch Turrets and then six more 0 single gun mounts. Shouldnt it say 1? At 0 they dont show on the UI. Just a funky ship. Will it fight in combat with 10x 6" or will it only have 4? The UI shows only 4. That’s the ui for casemate guns its a bit weird The ships are fine in combat and I’ll check why it’s missing a pair of casemate guns. (The Omaha’s had 2x2 and 8 casemate 6 inch guns) the SoDak's are significantly overweight when I redesign them as well |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 11, 2019 4:13:57 GMT -6
I didnt have a problem with those overweight ships. They are a little funky but upgrade ok with some changes.
I did run into an issue where I couldnt build another Saratoga Lexington class for quite some time. Turns out that my tech level was limited to lesser tonnage. So that was okay, I just decided that the Navy felt those were the biggest ships we needed for then.
The only problem I ran into, was Germany. They never underwent a nationalist coup. Their budget stayed super low, like 51 million in 1944 compared to my 908 million for the USA. So they could build maybe one BB and some support ships. They were a wasted nation spot. So dont know why they were broken. The only other mod I used with yours was some templates and ship designs I dropped in tghe IDes folder.
With the Germany exception, it was very refreshing to play with historical ships! I had so much fun! It was a blast. Thank you!!! Very nice mod. Hope you sort out the Germany thing. Maybe it's a 1.08 issue?
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Post by seawolf on Sept 11, 2019 11:41:58 GMT -6
I didnt have a problem with those overweight ships. They are a little funky but upgrade ok with some changes. I did run into an issue where I couldnt build another Saratoga Lexington class for quite some time. Turns out that my tech level was limited to lesser tonnage. So that was okay, I just decided that the Navy felt those were the biggest ships we needed for then. The only problem I ran into, was Germany. They never underwent a nationalist coup. Their budget stayed super low, like 51 million in 1944 compared to my 908 million for the USA. So they could build maybe one BB and some support ships. They were a wasted nation spot. So dont know why they were broken. The only other mod I used with yours was some templates and ship designs I dropped in tghe IDes folder. With the Germany exception, it was very refreshing to play with historical ships! I had so much fun! It was a blast. Thank you!!! Very nice mod. Hope you sort out the Germany thing. Maybe it's a 1.08 issue? I missed a zero in Germanys file it’ll be fixed in the next update |
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Post by dizzy on Sept 11, 2019 12:07:04 GMT -6
Oh good! Yes, the whole experience with this mod is great knowing you're looking at dealing with historical setups. So hats off, and thanks!
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Post by christian on Sept 12, 2019 6:35:13 GMT -6
That’s G3 and N3 for the no WNT start and no the models in game would make them 70000 tons, so I had to modify them They had really thick deck armor compared to its weight There are multiple problems:
1. I'm not sure those were ready projects, more like design proposals, so: 2. In the actual project stage they would either be made larger or armour would be cut down
3. Armour was planned as very unequal - for example G3 was supposed to have max thickness of only around magazines (14in belt, 8in deck) while machinery and secondary magazines would have 9-12in belt, 4-7in deck). I'm pretty sure game do not models so large variations (almost to the point where you should use "box over magazine" armour option)
4. Do we even know that those were ever planned for building (as UK have no money for them)? Maybe they were created for Washington Treaty, to be used in negotiations as both US and Japan planned such large ships.
those projects were defeneatly reality large ships in game simply do not fit with their tonnage try to build a yamato in game and you will be falling several thousand tons short fit that 410mm belt with 8 inch deck 10 inch turret roof 26 inch turret face 27 knots and 18 inch guns combined with the fact you need 6x2 5 inch tertiaries and 4x3 6 inch secondaries a hangar with 7 planes 2 catapults oh yeah also you need to fit that in 63200 tons oh yeah and this is in 1970 with max tech via file editing Attachments:
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