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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 1:41:53 GMT -6
The AI torpedo hitscan from RtW2 hasnt been fixed. In fact, its even worse now. 1913, 12000yds and the AI just keeps hitting at literally impossible launching solutions, where any hit above 500yds can be considered pure fantasy. And thats not even on 100% research rate, but just 80%. The game is basically unplayable. All my capital ships get hitscaned in every battle. Plus the player-controlled destroyers are ALWAYS launching torps god knows where, struggling to hit a stationary target. Edit: pls someone move this thread to bugreport, I havent seen that before posting this Please provide a save when it is happen.
Keep in mind that there is big difference if one side is pushing forward and the other side is just slowly retreating. Just this small difference in strategic situation gives one side much more chance to make successful torpedo attack.
I was playing as Spain, mostly in defensive and when I was in defensive my capital ships were quite save from enemy torpedoes and enemy was hit by torpedoes regularly which was quite opposite to situation when I pressed on enemy.
Like this? Or should I zip and upload a complete save folder? Because this one is just 100% rigged in favor of AI. Enemy BB fleet went unescorted, just 3 pre-dreadnoughts. I attacked them with 4 CLs to conduct a torpedo attack. The result? 6 (!!!) torpedo hits into my cruisers, 0 (!!!!!) to enemy battleships. I have never seen such a BS. It turns the game into an absolute joke. Attachments:RTWGame3.bcs (717.57 KB)
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Post by seawolf on May 30, 2023 1:58:47 GMT -6
Please provide a save when it is happen.
Keep in mind that there is big difference if one side is pushing forward and the other side is just slowly retreating. Just this small difference in strategic situation gives one side much more chance to make successful torpedo attack.
I was playing as Spain, mostly in defensive and when I was in defensive my capital ships were quite save from enemy torpedoes and enemy was hit by torpedoes regularly which was quite opposite to situation when I pressed on enemy.
Like this? Or should I zip and upload a complete save folder? Because this one is just 100% rigged in favor of AI. Enemy BB fleet went unescorted, just 3 pre-dreadnoughts. I attacked them with 4 CLs to conduct a torpedo attack. The result? 6 (!!!) torpedo hits into my cruisers, 0 (!!!!!) to enemy battleships. I have never seen such a BS. It turns the game into an absolute joke. Maybe you just didn't save the game yet, but in that save posted you haven't lost any ships? The only sunk ships appear to be a Russian battleship sunk by your Japanese allies, and an (also Russian) armored cruiser you sunk. A full save folder is required for us to open it, but I can see in the text file it's August, 1891? From the sounds of it, did you approach the enemy battleships from behind? That would give them a clear torpedo strike.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 3:23:16 GMT -6
Like this? Or should I zip and upload a complete save folder? Because this one is just 100% rigged in favor of AI. Enemy BB fleet went unescorted, just 3 pre-dreadnoughts. I attacked them with 4 CLs to conduct a torpedo attack. The result? 6 (!!!) torpedo hits into my cruisers, 0 (!!!!!) to enemy battleships. I have never seen such a BS. It turns the game into an absolute joke. Maybe you just didn't save the game yet, but in that save posted you haven't lost any ships? The only sunk ships appear to be a Russian battleship sunk by your Japanese allies, and an (also Russian) armored cruiser you sunk. A full save folder is required for us to open it, but I can see in the text file it's August, 1891? From the sounds of it, did you approach the enemy battleships from behind? That would give them a clear torpedo strike. Thats because I closed the game without saving. When it comes to the incident, enemy fleet was heading around 180 degree (heading south), my fleet was heading around 220 degree, and joined from the east, slightly ahead of the BB fleet to compensate for the slow early torpedoes.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 7:26:36 GMT -6
Another battle, a single pre-dreadnought battleship with a single broadside torpedo launcher. And guess what, 10 000 yards, maybe even more (so the hit is not just improbable, but likely also impossible), and it lands a perfect hit at a maneuvering cruiser... Im seriously starting to regret ever buying this game. Especially after warning about this issue for so long even before the RtW3 was released...
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Post by wlbjork on May 30, 2023 8:35:54 GMT -6
Maybe you just didn't save the game yet, but in that save posted you haven't lost any ships? The only sunk ships appear to be a Russian battleship sunk by your Japanese allies, and an (also Russian) armored cruiser you sunk. A full save folder is required for us to open it, but I can see in the text file it's August, 1891? From the sounds of it, did you approach the enemy battleships from behind? That would give them a clear torpedo strike. Thats because I closed the game without saving. When it comes to the incident, enemy fleet was heading around 180 degree (heading south), my fleet was heading around 220 degree, and joined from the east, slightly ahead of the BB fleet to compensate for the slow early torpedoes. Hate to be that guy but...how do you expect the Dev team to investigate what happened if you didn't save after the incident? They have tools to open up the log and check all the numbers, possibly even force a replay so they can see what you did and what the AI did. Without that, all they can do is look and say 'well, none of the numbers here look wrong'. Please. Save the game the next time you have an unfortunate incident with torpedoes and let the dev team have the whole save file so they can investigate properly.
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conner
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Post by conner on May 30, 2023 21:36:44 GMT -6
Thats because I closed the game without saving. When it comes to the incident, enemy fleet was heading around 180 degree (heading south), my fleet was heading around 220 degree, and joined from the east, slightly ahead of the BB fleet to compensate for the slow early torpedoes. Hate to be that guy but...how do you expect the Dev team to investigate what happened if you didn't save after the incident? They have tools to open up the log and check all the numbers, possibly even force a replay so they can see what you did and what the AI did. Without that, all they can do is look and say 'well, none of the numbers here look wrong'. Please. Save the game the next time you have an unfortunate incident with torpedoes and let the dev team have the whole save file so they can investigate properly. Yeah, this. Getting a save game is super important for bug fixing, ala the detaching issue people have been having and I got a save game of. The result was the bug being spotted and being fixed for the next update. I personally haven't noticed any super odd torps hits, even in RtW2. Torp hits are annoying but it's almost always my fault, and I've also done some absolutely disgusting torp hits against the enemy. Also have to consider that they might have way better torp tech than you and will be able to hit shots that should be impossible.
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Post by sobakaa on May 31, 2023 3:11:20 GMT -6
I also haven't yet noticed any strange hits from enemy torpedoes. They mostly land hits when it's night time or when i get too close in a straight line. However when it comes to the AI dodging torpedoes, it certainly executes some perfect ones, like angling the ship exactly to barely make it in between two salvos coming from both sides of its ship. Nothing a player can't do, i suppose, only that the AI can do it for all of its ships at the same time.
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Post by director on Jun 1, 2023 1:08:53 GMT -6
The AI regularly, perfectly snipes with torpedoes at, um, 'unusual' ranges and many years before successful torpedo attacks against a moving target were feasible.
Also, AI ships routinely turn aside to avoid oncoming torpedoes... human controlled ships do not.
It doesn't matter if the designers intend for the AI to cheat - the fact is that it does, and has since the game's first iteration.
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Post by sagaren on Jun 1, 2023 3:37:29 GMT -6
I've been experimenting in RTW 3 and the previous game, including open up techs like radar long before the ai is able to do so. I've seen ai ships change course to dodge torpedos when well beyond visual range before they could have radar. They shouldn't even know the player ships are present.
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Post by arminpfano on Jun 1, 2023 9:36:56 GMT -6
Another battle, a single pre-dreadnought battleship with a single broadside torpedo launcher. And guess what, 10 000 yards, maybe even more (so the hit is not just improbable, but likely also impossible), and it lands a perfect hit at a maneuvering cruiser... Im seriously starting to regret ever buying this game. Especially after warning about this issue for so long even before the RtW3 was released...
This seems like a corrupted config file or something like that . Any torpedo a pre-dread can fire should have a range of much less than 10.000 yards. So either the torp came from another source (visible in log), or there is a real problem. One which I canĀ“t confirm - my torp hitscan is where it should be and it feels natural.
Maybe try to deinstall and reinstall the game.
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Post by arminpfano on Jun 1, 2023 9:39:37 GMT -6
Also, AI ships routinely turn aside to avoid oncoming torpedoes... human controlled ships do not.
Mine do, at least the capitals. I learned the hard way to better zigzag as soon as I get into torpedo range...
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Post by director on Jun 2, 2023 13:46:56 GMT -6
Also, AI ships routinely turn aside to avoid oncoming torpedoes... human controlled ships do not.
Mine do, at least the capitals. I learned the hard way to better zigzag as soon as I get into torpedo range...
I zig-zag even at ridiculous ranges. My point is that the AI isn't zigging to avoid torpedoes, it is turning to avoid torpedoes it should not be able to see because it knows exactly their existence, course, speed and position. In other words, it sees what the player, in a similar position, could not see. In a word, it cheats. Rarely do I see my ships get a torpedo hit unless the target is immobile, or nearly so. Add to this, that if you oppose an AI CA with CLs, even with big 9-to-12 gun CLs, you will find you cannot score hits. Not do damage - but hits - while the CA scores massive numbers of hits. Shouldn't this be the other way around? US Navy combat experience in WW2 shows that CLs should be able to hose down targets. Maybe the 'size of target' modifiers are backwards?
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Post by zederfflinger on Jun 2, 2023 14:54:10 GMT -6
I find that it is very difficult to score torpedo hits at anything beyond point blank range, however, it is not impossible, just hard. Then again, I do play on captain, so that helps a ton. If the AI wants to zig zag to dodge, fine, but it really shouldn't be allowed to start turning as soon as the player launches torpedoes.
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Post by cwemyss on Jun 3, 2023 10:36:47 GMT -6
I posted this over on Matrix not sure how many of the same people are here.
"I'm 100% guessing, but it's possible that what's driving people nuts may be that both the "Destroyers launch torpedo" logic and the "oh dang that destroyer might launch" logic are making the exact same calculations. That leads to the AI knowing it only needs to evade when there's a high probability a torpedo is in the water, otherwise it can roll along fat dumb and happy. As soon as a destroyer enters launch parameters, that by default means the AI target knows it's in the same launch parameters... thus a perception that it's got some special knowledge and is avoiding the *actual* torpedoes."
Basically, if both AI actions (launch and evasion) use the same algorithm, there's no conservatism (extra unneeded evasion) or risk taking and poor judgement (failure to evade) built into the AI's digital helmsmen. They will always evade only when they need to.
Frederick and WilliamMiller have long stated (since RTW1 release or so... ) that there's nothing in the code giving the AI an inherent advantage, and given how open and engaged they are regarding just about everything I see no reason to believe otherwise.
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Post by t3rm1dor on Jun 3, 2023 11:56:31 GMT -6
Mine do, at least the capitals. I learned the hard way to better zigzag as soon as I get into torpedo range...
I zig-zag even at ridiculous ranges. My point is that the AI isn't zigging to avoid torpedoes, it is turning to avoid torpedoes it should not be able to see because it knows exactly their existence, course, speed and position. In other words, it sees what the player, in a similar position, could not see. In a word, it cheats. Rarely do I see my ships get a torpedo hit unless the target is immobile, or nearly so. Add to this, that if you oppose an AI CA with CLs, even with big 9-to-12 gun CLs, you will find you cannot score hits. Not do damage - but hits - while the CA scores massive numbers of hits. Shouldn't this be the other way around? US Navy combat experience in WW2 shows that CLs should be able to hose down targets. Maybe the 'size of target' modifiers are backwards? This doesn't match my experience at all. You can check gunnery modifiers in the ship window and see if a 8 inch crusier gets higher chances for hitting a ship.
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